Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Cleric says it's okay to beat and **** your wife

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by Not4Resale, Jan 22, 2009.

  1. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24946317-1243,00.html

    The thing that gets me is this guy is getting paraded as some whack job extremist when it's in black and white writing in the Qu'ran.....

    Personally I don't see how deported him fixes anything. I think that just gives the muslims more reason to pull the racist card when people are generally only attacking their religion.

  2. To be fair, Christians are supposed to stone their wives to death if infidelity occurs.

    Yay for relevancy.
  3. Read about it this morning, and he does nothing to deny he said either. If people think we have mixed/confused/hateful views on the religion then this is a perfect example why.
  4. interesting to read the comments below.....are they true? If this not what they teach?

    Either way i still think it's wrong......you come to a country you respect there laws and beliefs.
  5. Is he really that far removed from our expectations?

    He's saying it's alright to hit your wife but not make her bleed or leave bruises.

    What do you think the chances are of a conviction on that basis under Australian law? If the wife doesn't testify? Even if there was a conviction, what do you think the sentence would be?

    Same goes with the ****. He's not saying ****. He's just saying that a wife should provide sex on demand. how many Aussie males think along those lines? chances of conviction?

    Not saying he's right, just saying it's not as radical as the headlines would suggest.
  6. The problem is many of the women are just as much under the spell through religious indoctrination and truly believe that it is God's will to allow it.

    Having known a girl who finally got out of an abusive relationship with an Islamic husband, i've seen firsthand the justifications given and often it just sounds like recycling of the husbands reasons.

    I still stand by my argument that it starts in print. There are lots of muslims that don't engage in this kind of practice but as long as it's there to be interpreted, it will be used as justification.

    Also following on from Devotards comment, I don't think the Qu'ran is quite as open to interpretation as the bible, there is no old testament to pick and choose verses that you accept from. Following that, there's also a good 5000 hadith's (anecdotes about the prophets life and message) that can be quoted to justify any number of things (some holding more weight than others).
  7. Please note that this guy is a 'self-proclaimed cleric'. I'd take his pronouncements on Islam about as seriously as I'd take the pronouncements of a Christian 'ordained minister' who got his credentials on the web...

    And yeah, the point is well taken: "It's right there in the Koran" - "Uhuh, and have you *read* the Bible lately?"

  8. It's still ok for them to walk into doors though, right?

    Muhammed says it's still ok to fall down the stairs??

  9. "Coburg's self-styled cleric Samir Abu Hamza said despite Australian **** laws it was impossible for a man to **** his wife even if she refused to have sex with him, the Herald Sun reports."

    Yet another media beat up. Must have been a slow news day.
    Geez, if the Sun printed everthing some nutter said the paper would be the size of a phone book everyday.

    BTW..I'm a self styled Christian Minister who believes that Barbie is our one true saviour. We worship Barbie's miracle of stillness and silence and we pray for judgement day day when Barbie will become animated and tell us all her wishes. Until then, Barbie speaks to me in the sound of rain and wind. She told me that all women must be enslaved by men and the wearing of all forms of female under garments is prohibited. One of our holy prophets, Paris Hilton, has already started our crusade for female genital nudity. Praise The Lord.
    This has been a message from Father Doug Hole....The High Priest of The Church of All Things Yamaha.

    ***waits for the Sun to call***
  10. Fair call Bravus but lets not forget the stuff he's teaching isn't exactly the "christian right" of the Islamic world. They are very well known verses and many Mufti's have been known to quote them. I've seen debates on Aljazeera about what can be termed as the correct severity of the beating. Ãn regards to the submitting to sex, I haven't met anyone personally who has admitted to this kind of practice but i would imagine that it would not be difficult for this to take place behind closed doors.

    Mmmm, I really think literalism is counterproductive. It is great for building a religion but is probably one of the more dangerous methods of practicing one's particular brand of religion.
  11. Having a 7 year old daughter, I can tell you that you can buy Animated Barbie on DVD. So the prophacy is coming true. :LOL:

    All praise the Tuono.
  12. Koran, chapter 4, verse 34.

    If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teachings of god], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them.

    for example...
  13. :roll: These people never cease to amaze me.
    Regardless of his beliefs, what he is teaching his followers to do is nothing less than enciting criminal behaviour, which is an offence last I checked.
    When are these people going to realise, if you wanna live here, you do so by OUR laws :evil:
  14. Hey dudes,
    The Mussies aren't the only ones....
    Read on.

    How common is domestic violence in Australia?
    It is now accepted that domestic violence is very common in Australia. An estimate of the magnitude of the problem can be obtained from public records (police reports, hospital records, applications for protection orders, lists of refuge positions, and spousal homicides), clinical samples and community surveys. Although public records have inherent bias in their non-random selection and under-reporting of samples, they do show that women are the main victims of domestic violence:

    Police figures reveal that women are over eight times more likely to be victims than males;12

    Crime surveys show that a third of all assaults on women are by partners, whereas the number of assaults on men by their partners is too small to produce reliable estimates.12,13

    Victorian public hospital figures show that 1.3% of women and 0.14% of men admitted to emergency departments are there as a result of partner-inflicted injury.14

    Each year, more than 20 000 women in Australia seek shelter in women's refuges and take out protection orders.9
    A recent review in Western Australia showed that the incidence per 100 000 adult women of injury from domestic violence varied according to the source of public records used: 1.6 (police-recorded homicides), 129.2 (hospital admissions data), 183.5 (recorded crime), and 248.1 (restraining order data).12

    In Australian survey research, women are three times more likely than men to experience an episode of physical violence by their partners.6,7

    Domestic violence rates vary depending on the definition used15 and whether the data are from community crime victim surveys12,13 or prevalence studies in clinical samples6,7,16-19 or community samples.20 Clinical studies in emergency departments and antenatal clinics indicate that between 19.3%7 and 25.0%17 of women will be subjected to domestic violence over their lifetime. Surveys of women attending general practice in Australia reveal varying partner abuse rates of 8.0%16 and 28%18 in a 12-month period. The only population-based study that investigates physical and sexual violence, the Women's Safety Survey,20 found that 2.6% of women who currently had partners had experienced an incident of violence in the previous 12 months, and 8.0% had experienced violence at some stage in their relationship.

  15. see, i think youve stumbled upon another blatantly biased report

    Women experience domestic violence at far greater rates than men do, and women and children often live in fear as a result of the abuse that is used by men to maintain control over their partners.

    not a good start.

    throughout europe, canada, and the US, unbiased reports show that domestic violence is mutual most of the time, and men are victims almost 50/50 with women.

    the belief has always been that men can get violent in social situations, therefore, theyre obviously more violent towards their partners.

    even in the 60's, professors through the US studied this and found it was not the case

    lets be honest, guys arent going to report violence against them very much, because of shame, and the fact that the legal system and DV support system, doesnt really care about male victims.

    think about youre own experiences. certainly at parties or whatever, i see plenty of girls hitting, slapping or kicking some guy theyre not happy with.

    in my personal life my father has never raised a hand in offence OR defence even when my mother was violent. my sister is also a violent person.

    can i handle being hit? well sure, im a big enough guy. but im in no place to say that all guys should put up with violence against them. thats moral hypocrisy and the same as saying "well, my wife can handle a few smacks, so its ok." - its not ok

    DV has always had a 1 dimensional view, a big strong guy hitting a small weak woman. partners come in all different shapes and sizes, including butch women and scrawny men.

    i guess ive been lucky with who i have dated, ive always picked decent ladies. i dont know what i would do if i was with a violent partner, i guess i would have to dump them. even that isnt an option for many guys as the partner can just claim out of spite, that he abused her. then hes up sh!t creek

  16. Deuteronomy 21:18-21
    If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not listen to the voice of his father or his mother even when they punish him his father and mother must take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard." All the men of the town must then stone him to death. You must banish this evil from among you.

    Deuteronomy 25:5
    If brothers live together and one of them dies without a son the dead man's wife must not marry a stranger outside the family. Her husband's brother must fulfill the duty of a brother and marry the dead man's wife.

    Deuteronomy 13:6-8
    If your brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife tries to secretly entice you, telling you to go and worship other gods, gods of people living near you, or far from you, or anywhere on earth, do not listen to him. You must kill them. Show them no pity. And your hand must strike the first blow. Then the hands of all the people. You shall stone them to death.

    Deuteronomy 25:11-12
    If two men are fighting and the wife of one man rescues her husband from his assailant by grabbing his testicles you must cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

    1 Peter 2:18
    Slaves, you should obey your masters respectfully, not only those who are kind and reasonable but also those who are difficult to please.

    Your point is...?
  17. The point is that the old testament was superceded by the new and much of that stuff is no longer regarded as being "Gospel Truth" .:LOL:

    There has also been a Reformation and much revision of Christianity over the years. Islam never had a Reformation.

    The interesting thing with this bloke is that he's actually exorting his followers to break the law. As for what he actually said - he was speaking in English (I heard an excerpt on the radio this morning) so there's not even the possibility of it being lost in translation.
  18. I do think that Islam is in dire need of a reformation. But I've also lived in places where biblical literalism was far more prevalent than it is here, and it is not a pretty sight.

    There are progressive Muslim countries, like Turkey, where this guy's statements would draw the same outrage that they do here. Saying that "it's right there in the Koran" tells you nothing about the way most practicing Muslims live their lives. In fact, it is exactly the same as saying that we should stone our disobedient children because it says so in the Bible. Sure - it says it, but nobody is actually expected to follow it.

    So thanks Tony - you actually made my point for me. :)
  19. The problem however lies in the justifiability of the said verse. If it's in print, someone can pick it up and justify their prejudices e.g. prejudice toward homosexuals.

    I think reforming religiosus documents is what needs to be done but somehow i think that's going to be just a pipe dream as there will be the screamer rejecting the change as the book already is the infallible word of god.