Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

NSW Claiming for damage, not insured

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by the mole, Jun 4, 2016.

  1. I'm looking for advice after a recent crash. I was riding up a narrow twisty road, came a round a blind left hairpin and there was a truck on the wrong side of the road. I hit it head-on, but had washed off most of the speed I was doing, he was almost stopped as we hit. I got away with a bruised kneecap, am limping a bit but will be OK. My 2012 DL650 is most likely a write-off after a quick assessment at a local bike shop (smashed plastics, bent forks). I had no insurance other than CTP, the truck is owned by Byron Shire Council and I assume they have relevant insurance, I'm waiting for them to get back to me. I made a report to Byron police, luckily got a sympathetic bike rider and their report will show the Council at fault as their traffic controllers were not doing the job.

    I am looking for advice on two things.

    1. How do I go about starting a claim for the damage to the bike, my pain/suffering and time off work (self employed).

    2. I think the bike will be written off, but, perversely, I'd like to not have it written off, keep it and repair it myself, as I've had it since near new, have modded it and know it has been well maintained (I'd like to do a naked conversion). I would be prepared to accept a lower payment from the insurer to avoid write-off. So my question is, is this sort of negotiation possible and if it is are there pitfalls I should be wary of?

    Any advice would be gratefully received!

    20160531_2min (640x480).
    Bloody Volvos!

  2. my best advice would be for you to consult a lawyer so you get a fair compensation and don't miss out on what you are entitled to
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. You got lucky, hope your feeling ok!
    Yep, finding a lawyer even if its just to recover health related costs would be a good start and getting checked over by the doctor

    Next you would get the bike inspected and quotes obtained.
    Get together a 'letter of demand' for $xxxxx and staple the quotes, police report and any other supporting evidence....they will then forward that to their insurer who will get in contact with you.

    The bike is yours, it does not need to be written off, its ultimately not the other insurers bike to sell from however if the frame is damaged some workshops will report this to the RTA.
    In terms of negotiating the other party needs to pay to fix for damages to the bike or get you a new bike depending on what is cheaper...know how much the bike is worth with all the mods attached and how much you will settle for.
    A 'market value' they give you is not final and often lowballed, theirs no problem in telling them to try again with a better number.

    Also remember to claim any gear that was damaged such as a new helmet, jacket, gloves, pants or even damage to personal items such as a cracked mobile phone.
    Also price in a rental car while your at it.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. You are an idiot for not being insured on a newer model bike.
    In any case, you need a quote or statement from a repairer advising repair would be uneconomical, and you provide that with a letter of demand to the party responsible.

    As you are making a third party claim, you have several options.
    1-if repairable, you take it to the repairer who gave the quote and have it repaired once you have been paid by the insurer.
    2-get paid by insurer and pocket the $$ then do what you want with the bike and the cash
    3-if not repairable, you will find that upon being paid by the insurer, the bike becomes their property as they will pay you the pre-accident market value of the bike. You do have the right to retain the bike, however your payout will have a salvage value deducted. Be aware that it is almost certain the insurer will list the bike on the WOVR and you may possibly be able to re-register it even though it will be listed as a statutory write off, provided it is registered and owned by you.
  5. Economic writeoff = Able to be repaired and registered in most states after a VIV and roadworthy....note a VIV is very comprehensive and strict
    Statutory write off = Cannot be registered again in Australia, you've got yourself a trackbike or bunch of spare parts
  6. Some good advice on the property claim, but get in touch with Zurich, the CTP insurer of the prime mover about any time off or medical expenses you have. Report the accident and ask for a claim form.

    The pic I took won't upload, but I got the truck and insurer details by running the plate through the Service NSW app
    • Like Like x 1
  7. By the look of that scene, the truck driver and or company may have issues with their own insurance and possible charges etc, there is a possibility they may just pay you a fee to go away.
    .(as said above get all the figures and some good advise)
  8. Thanks for the help everyone, I'vewent to the doctor and had an X-ray the day after, there's no fracture and she thinks it will be OK. She gave me a certificate for 5 days off (self employed, will have to negotiate that with the boss!), that ran out today but its still very sore climbing steps etc, will try and see her again soon. I sell/install skylights so climbing ladders and crawling through roof spaces won't be happening for a while.

    I pulled the front end down and checked the forks last night, both are slightly bent.:-(

    The advice to see a lawyer makes sense, but I'm wary of having to pay more than I'll gain in the process....had a less than optimum experience a few years ago and feel a bit "once bitten, twice shy" at the moment.

    "Be aware that it is almost certain the insurer will list the bike on the WOVR"
    That is what I'd like to avoid, and if anyone has experience of negotiating that I'm all ears.
    Are they likely to look at a quote or two and just make a decision, or would they use an assessor who I might be able to talk to?
    If the bike is worth say $6500, what is the likely repair cost that would push it on to the WOVR?

    Cheers, David.
  9. I would see a lawyer, his fee would probably be added to the bill so you won't pay. I feel that the truck driver had little choice on that corner. If he had stayed in his lane he would most likely have taken out the safety rail, done a lot of damage to his truck and blocked the road for some time anyway. A lot to be said about taking it easy around blind corners, you don't know what you may encounter. You may even find a court will find both parties equally responsible and award costs 50-50 or similar. Talk to a lawyer, I doubt that you will get anywhere with the truckys insurer any other way.
  10. #10 Nicholai_Chev, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
    You'll feel stiff and sore for a few days.
    Have a search, you might be able to find lawyers who won't charge upfront and only add it onto the final settlement.

    When I claimed my bike for damages the insurer just wanted a couple of quotes and supporting photo's. I made the bike available for them to inspect however certainly never went out of my way to drop it off to them.
    I have no contract with their insurer or obligation to go out of my way or give it to a workshop of their choosing, you hold all the cards.

    Generally speaking they will write the bike off when damages approach 75% of the bikes worth.

    100% disagree about OP being partially at fault. He was fully entitled to be in the lane and the double lines make it ultra clear what side of the road the truck should have been on. If it was oversized and not able to fit fully in the lane it should
    A) Not be on that particular road
    B.) Have prewarning car ahead with "Oversized Load" sign plastered all over to warn oncoming traffic as-well as have a full traffic management plan.

    The truck driver was fully negligent and its a shear miracle his stupidity never killed anyone that day.
    Yes its game to ride faster then you can see, no one expects a huge truck to fully cross over double lines covering both lanes on a blind corner.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. #11 the mole, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
    I'm wary on that road having met locals flying down it in ratty looking cars using more than their share of the road, so I wasn't scratching and chose a line on the way in that would keep me near the centre of my lane. I was expecting that if I needed to avoid something, I would if anything need to tighten my line. My recollection is limited to "Truck! Fcuk! Bang, I'm alive!!!", but I must have straightened up and braked hard, thank you ABS. If I'd run wider to try to leave more braking space I'd have hit the armco and gone down the gully, not that that was a conscious decision.
    That said, and photos notwithstanding, I would not be surprised to see the insurer try on a partial fault scenario, particularly if I'm not lawyered up.

    I feel very sorry for the truck driver as there's a bit more to the story. The council had two workers in a ute at the bottom of the hill. They had radiod the driver to say the road was clear and he could come down. I came past them, sitting in their ute on the other side of the road. They made no attempt to flag me down or signal in any way. When the driver and I met them at the bottom of the hill, they said......wait for it......"Sorry mate, we didn't see you".
  12. Going by that it may not be the trucky that will be held responsible but the council for failing in their job. Seek legal advice.
  13. Yeah, that's what the Senior Constable I reported it to said. The truckie couldn't say too much in front of everyone at the scene, but I phoned him a couple of days later and he was really pissed off at the other two. Council's WHS guy has phoned me 4 times since the accident to see how I'm going.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Sorry to hear your bad news but it is good to see you are not too badly injured.

    You have described a very complicated collision, what I mean is, I do not view it as a motor vehicle collision that would normally be investigated by Police. I see the incident as a work cover matter, something that may be reported on by Police but investigated by Work Cover. There are a few details you have not given in your description, such as was the truck in motion or stationary at the time of the collision, which may make a difference to civil litigation.

    My understanding is that if the Police investigated the matter, under the Road Safety and Traffic Management Act, there could be one of four outcomes:
    1. The truck driver is at fault.
    2. You may be found at fault.
    3. Can't be determined.
    4. Mechanical failure of one or more of the vehicles.

    None of these really fit as an investigation would probably show what we already know, that the traffic controllers were not doing their job properly. The only authority who can take action regarding the traffic controllers negligence, is Work Cover.

    Disregarding all that, a Work Cover investigation is unlikely to help you at all, except maybe Byron Shire Council may have to review their staff training procedures, which could reduce the chances of further similar incidents.

    You need to consult a solicitor to help you take civil action. The advantage of taking civil action is that a percentage of blame can be atributed to several parties involved. Where you may be atributed a small portion of blame, IF you failed to stop before colliding with the (possibly) stationary truck. The truck driver may be attributed a simmilar amount, and the major blame put on the traffic controllers and Byron Shire Council.

    (The above statment does not mean I think you are at fault, I do not, however under the Road Safety and Traffic Management Act, If the truck was stationary, you would be found at fault. The same as if a car had broken down and stopped in your lane, or a rock fell onto the roadway and you collided with it.)

    The main advantage of consulting a solicitor is, I think you will have a satisfactory outcome without going to Court. Even if it is only paying out your bike. A solicitor may also clear up if you can claim under your CTP or the CTP of the Council truck. Mention the issue of Work Cover to your solicitor, he or she may have a different view or they may think a report to Work Cover is helpful to your case.

    PS I live just down the road at Skennars Head.
  15. You are probably right about it not being something Police would normally investigate. The Council WHS guy said that he had called the Police soon after the accident, they asked whether anyone had significant injuries, he said no, they said they didn't need to be involved. After I had been to Mullum Hospital I went home, dropped in to Byron Police Station on the way and spoke with a sympathetic officer who has given it an event number and my understanding is there will be some sort of Police report.
  16. Thats right, Police will often report on an incident but the investigation will be done by another authority. Good luck with it all.
  17. Hi Macca, personal message sent. Cheers, David
  18. In NSW, every vehicle written off by an insurer is by default a Statutory Write Off and listed on the WOVR as such.
    There is no repairable write off anymore.
    There are certain conditions where an owner can re-register a stat write off, however no other person can do so.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. How is this a workcover matter when the person injured is not an employee of the responsible party, hasn't stated they are on their way to/from work?
  20. Thanks for the clarification Tweet,
    Damn 7 countries one continent regulations...you'd think they would standardise this wouldn't you!
    • Agree Agree x 1