Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Check my maths please

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by Bravus, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. At 140 hp and 168 kg dry, the MV Agusta Brutale 800 Dragster RR has 833 hp/tonne (621 kW/tonne).

    The Lamborghini Gallardo, at 2.51 kg/hp, has 398 hp/tonne (296 kW/tonne).

    Have I missed something, or is this sub-$20k (second hand) bike well over twice the power/weight ratio of a Lambo?

    (and very far indeed from bothering the scorers of the LAMS 150 kW/tonne rule - by a factor of 4)
  2. Looks right to me.

    Haven't seen a production supercar loop it on the road. Seen plenty of production bikes do it on youtube.
  3. We could make a vid of them both going around a racetrack and demonstrate just how irrelevant power to weight can be.
    But Power to Dollar?
    That would be very roughly $1:1W for the Lambo and $1:6.3W for the MV.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Yep looks right. A Gallardo has a All wheel drive and two wheel drive versions. More rubber to put power down. As Titus said PtoW is not the only metric.

    In LAMS bikes, an allowance is made for the weight of rider and fuel of 90kg so it is not a direct PtoW calculation.

    1000 x Bike Power/(Bike Weight + 90kg)
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. I volunteer to race the Lambo around Eastern Creek South Circuit.
  6. Ah, OK, so more like 3 times than 4 times (140hp/258 kg rather than 140/168).

    Yeah, I get that it's not the only metric, and titus has put his finger on what I was really mainly thinking about: power/weight/cost. That comparo is even crazier still.
  7. Have you seen one for sale ?
  8. There's one in WA that's very tempting, but I don't have a lazy 20k or so, alas.
  9. Everything's crossed.
  10. Provided you get a good launch, better PWR will get you off the line quicker and away to an early lead.

    As your speed builds, though, drag becomes more of an issue because (a) it scales exponentially with speed, (b) it doesn't care about your weight and (c) motorcycle aerodynamics suck compared to Corollas, let alone supercars. Soon you're up against nearly as much air as the Lambo with a fraction of the power to push through it.

    Throw in some corners and the car's advantages start piling up: downforce, sooo much more rubber, AWD, better electronics, the stability of width and a lower centre of gravity, not to mention the driver's luxury of knowing that they're probably not going to die in a crash. You're toast.

    So yeah, if money were completely, absolutely no object ...

    ... I'd still take the bike every time.

    (Yeah, yeah, "I'd take the car, sell it and buy a bunch of bikes". Aren't you clever.)
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Interesting yewtube I watched a while ago with Guy Martin on his Tyco BMW vs Coultard in a Red Bull F1.

    Drag race over a quarter mile - F1 won by half a car length. Bike faster off line and ahead 3/4 of the way.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Exactly. Top speed is kind of irrelevant for me, since I like my license, and at the speeds I do the drag is not enough to overcome the engine power. It's all about acceleration quickly to relatively low speeds.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. #14 hyperspex, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
    Surprisingly, F1 cars have really high drag coefficients because they need the downforce. Combined with the gearing not really being tailored for standing starts, they don't necessarily have the 0-400m performance that you'd expect with all their oodles of power. I've heard anything between high 8's to 9's, which isn't that far out of reach for a race bike considering stock sportsbikes are already in the 10's.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. For reference

    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. bikes are slightly start limited due to high CoG as well.. then limited by drag later... (but MotoGP top speeds are higher than F1 cars..)
    whereas lambo, 4wd, low CoG + traction control will probably get off line quicker, but somewhere between that and high bike drag speed, will become slower, then faster

    traffic light GP.. I'd put money on 4wd Lambo with traction control..
    to $2, bike for sure..
    to $3 and beyond, car will take it back..

    so.. for most fun things.. bike :)

    not lambo but
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Anybody know anyone with a Lamborghini?
    • Like Like x 1
  17. MV 800 MV Agusta Brutale 800 Dragster, Triumph Street Triple, Yamaha MT-09: le prestazioni - Dueruote
    0-400 = 11.5s @ 203km/hr
    0-1000 = 21.4s @ 229

    Gallardo LP560-4 BATTLE : Pagani Zonda vs Lamborghini Gallardo - 1001Moteurs
    0-400 = 11.4s @ about 200
    0-1000 = 20.7s @ a bit north of 250

    so, LP560-4 a bit quicker.. difference is you can smash throttle anytime and get away with it..

    interestingly. Striple 765 is not far off the MT09, but MT09 faster than the other 2 up to about 100k's..then it loses (tops out about 209)
  18. So the 800rr has a few more horses than the standard 800 (120hp vs 140hp), as well as quickshift - so in with a real chance then to beat the Gallardo over 400m.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Apart from not including rider weight, you also used dry weight, not many drag races are won with no fuel-oil-radiator fluid.

    But yes, motorcycles are the king of power to weight ratio. Difference is that any muppet could do a perfect launch in a modern supercar.