Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Changin gears without clutch

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by Benlore, Jul 8, 2009.

  1. Hey does changing the gears without the clutch wear them out quicker? What are the pros and cons of this when slowing down and speeding up?

  2. There are lots of threads on this, Do a search.
  3. While riding along put your foot underneath the gear lever and press up gently, rev the bike out until it bounces off the limiter and it should slid up nicely into the next gear... wont do any damage to your gears but you may need a new engine if you repeat frequently :LOL:
  4. Well youre forcing the motor and transmission to match speeds instantly without a clutch, so the transmission has to take most of the force, not to mention far higher peak forces/torque applied to various components.

    Hmmmm sure about that? Id wager the engine holding up much better than the trans.
  5. Do it all the time.

    I use the clutch when slowing and when taking off only.
  6. :WStupid:

    Never had a clutch issue in my life.
  7. I'd bet you $100 that if you were to bounce the bike of the limiter everytime you changed up your engine would kark it before your gearbox. My bike has done 50,000km's with most upshifts done without the clutch, still no problems... but I reckon it wouldn't last 50,000kms at 13,000 rpm :LOL:
  8. Im not talking about bouncing off the rev limiter, I mean that the trans or a component in the trans is one of the weaker links in the drivetrain. The bike is a tool and be prepared to pay for the extra wear and tear if youre shifting without a clutch.
  9. 1-2 .. I use the clutch most of the time
    2-6 .. Clutchless
    Downshifting .. I always use the clutch.
    Upshifting, if done right will not harm the gearbox IMHO
  10. i mix it up clutchless up or down, depending if my left hand happens to be busy or not :p
  11. Personally I think mikes answer is a nasty misleading piece of work (Not saying it won’t work just that it is not the best way to treat your bike)
    You shouldn’t have the gear leaver loaded unless you are changing gears (this wares the gears)
    But clutchless shifts (when done properly) should actually cause less ware on your bike.
    To learn them just shift normally with the clutch, and use less and less clutch until you are barely brushing the leaver.
    Now my definition of normally could be a bit of an issue here. When I say normally I mean that you dip your revs to unload the engine for just a moment, and then bring them up as you complete the shift.
    Once you have all of this sorted your timing should be right and then just make the conscious decision to not use the clutch.
    Once you have upshifting sorted then comes downshifting. Same deal you keep your brake loaded to slow you down, when the revs get low, you blip the throttle as you shift (Again less and less clutch until you are ready to leave off it all together)
    When learning I found upshifting easier at high revs, but once I got used to it I could shift as I pleased.

    Now… Why do I say it can produce less ware??? It is fairly simply. When you pull the clutch in, thins start spinning down, then when you let it out there is a clunk. That clunk is ware (in essence) by clutchless shifting well, you avoid any clunking, you make the shifts smooth. You also are not disengaging and reengaging the clutch plates which causes ware on them, so a well performed clutchless shift causes less ware on the bike.
  12. When I first started riding I used to do it all the time, just because I COULD. These days I'm an old fart so I use the clutch all the time. Mind you, the fact that I have a hydraulic clutch on the bike probably encourages this.
  13. I usually give the clutch a tiny flick but on spirited occassions or track days I tend to forget its there for my upshifts. IMO I don't think that doing clutchless shifts are that bad for the bike when done properly. I blip when i change and TBH most of the time i barely feel the bike click over gears when i don't use the clutch. It doesn't feel like i unnecessarily load the engine but i'm sure there are people on here that disagree.

    You wanna do it, do it, if you don't don't.

    There are consequences either way.
  14. The clutch is for starting, stopping and people who can't ride.
    Edit: Oh and poking around slowly.
  15. :) I will pay that.. I've never had a gearbox issue and I started riding this way with my dirt bikes when I was like 10 or 11 when Dad taught me.
  16. Where's the farking FAQ when you need one?!

    Do ANY change wrong and it'll wear your clutch, transmission, gears, bearings and strain your engine.

    Sequential boxes are designed to be shifted without clutch, without causing harm, if you do it right.
  17. Would you drive a manual car this way? Let me just say up front I'm not an engineer, not a mechanic and my knowledge of the theory of gearboxes and clutches is rudimentory at best. From a logic perspective though, I'm assuming that seeing as all the manufacturors out there produce manual bikes with clutches that their intent is for us to use them. If they were superfluous, or even if it was only needed for between 1st and 2nd wouldn't they have revised the whole system?

    Considering that any improvement in performance, any new 'technology', any reduction in wear and tear, would become a good marketing tool that if this were the recommended way to ride a bike someone would be all over it? Theoretically getting rid of the clutch should reduce weight in an engine thereby improving the power to weight ratio which our racing fraternity think is the best thing since sliced bread.

    Based solely on upon that sort of thinking I'll be happy to stick with using my clutch and if it does wear out eventually (doesn't everything) at least it should be a reasonably simple operation to replace.
  18. Cars clutches are built a little bit differently hence why you get a healthy crunching sound when you try to clutchless shift in the car and a smooth snipping into place sound when done right on a bike.

    Just curious, have you ever had the bike at track and been pinging it whilst changing up with the clutch? Personally I don't like how the bike behaves with the clutch when its being shown affection 'spiritedly' hence why i don't use it on these occassions.
  19. So how about we leave it there and just agree that you have nothing to offer in this thread.
    If you read through my post it identifies why in fact if done correctly for a motorbike gearbox it actually causes less ware on the gearbox.
  20. Not quite correct. While the clutch IS different it is not the cause. The cause is the non-sequential box design in the car.