Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Change of perspective

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by murchy, Aug 29, 2011.

  1. Hey guys,

    I've recently started working on getting a bit of lean on (leaning inside the line of the corner to keep the bike upright), and have been having a bit of uncertainty regarding the change in perspective.

    The road I've been practising on:
    Just doing laps back and forth along that stretch.

    I'm not having any trouble with getting my head and upper body over a bit, and am comfortable in working on leaning further at my own pace (baby steps), but am finding the new change of perspective a bit disconcerting in terms of my place on the road. I should mention though, I'm feeling great about leaning in general - it just feels right, it's just the change in perspective that is a touch disconcerting.

    When I was just leaning with the bike, I was able to monitor my position on the road with my peripheral vision (as my gaze is firmly fixed on the vanishing point looking for the exit of the corner, and the bike bike beneath me is in clear view of the peripheral vision), but am having a bit of trouble doing the same thing when my head is out in line with the mirror, where a substantial amount of the bike is less visible. I'm still able to sit on my chosen line easily, but the new change in perspective is a touch disconcerting - even though I'm taking the same line, I sometimes feel as though I may be drifting off a bit, purely because I suddenly notice that my head is out with the mirror, and that the bike isn't really underneath me - I'm used to judging my bike's position as being pretty close to underneath my head.

    I feel like I've done a terrible job of explaining my uncertainties, I guess all I'm after is a bit of a discussion regarding the change of perspective. Is there a little bit of technique I'm missing in determining where the bike is under me? Or do I just need to practise up and get used to it?
  2. It's a bit strange when you first start it that's for sure. Have you read this thread?
  3. I hadn't, that's pretty much the exact advice I was looking for! :D
    My search for 'lean angle view' wasn't very fruitful =[
  4. I am no expert but my progression sort of went like this:

    1. learnt to counter steer, & stick my neck out to where i wanted to go. body was inline with the bike. I thought more lean was good, but felt so weird when the bike was fully leant over, not to mention dangerous.
    2. then i read some more & found out i should be placing my head next to the mirror. sure enough i did this, i felt exactly like you said 'weird!', as if i was offset from the bike.
    3. then i learnt that i should stick 1/2 an arse cheek over the seat into the turn. wow the bike doesn't have to lean over as much, helps heaps in the wet. you can turn the bike without even really leaning at all, as long as your corner speed is correct.
    3. did some track days & from the photos i found i was riding twisted, hanging my upper body off way to much & back, not close to the mirror at all. i could no longer counter steer with my arms & not riding with the balls of my feeton the pegs, destroying my boots & losing ground clearance.

    i.e. i found the main thing is practice & experiment, the main thing is if you are riding a sports bike is counteringsteering, keep low, arch your back, take all the weight of your hands like you are holding a gold fish. you want to be able to have maximum leverage on the bars. use your lower waste to pivot left & right keeping your head close to the mirror. dont try to hang of so much that you can not steer, your elbows should be bent all the the time.

    a good way to practice is do figure eights practicing counter leaning as you have to twist your lower back & shoulders in the direction you want to go before the bike starts to even turn. you will know are doing it right when you look to your 6 o clock position with your neck turned, shoulders are about 3 o'clock bikes about 2 o'clock & you feel your bike & shoulders catch up with as you apply the throttle.

    hope this rant helps!
  5. Thanks popeye, I assumed practise would take care of it, good to hear that's the case.

    One thing you mentioned though - arching my back. So far I've been bending at the waist, and keeping a somewhat straightish back. Not completely, but not hunchback style either.

    Is this incorrect posture?
  6. Just sit normally on the bike. If you grab the tank between your knees and take all weight off your wrists, you will probably need to arch your back to maintain that position, sometimes.
  7. i personally make a point of hunching my back all the time & making sure no weight is on my wrists.

    experiment with what is comfortable for you, being uncomfortable makes you lose concentration.

    yes practice as much as can & try some track days. They are a hoot!:p
  8. After reading this thread yesterday I thought I would consciously think about what I was doing when riding today.

    Like all have stated - to corner I push my chin over the mirror into the corner:

    For example, a left hand tight radius corner.

    - Left butt check a little off seat, chin over left mirror, weight over front wheel.
    - Left hand push forward on bar
    - Vision through the corner

    All normal yeah? But after reading this thread I started to take notice that if I was "thinking" about where the bike was relative to my body, lean, angle etc I would feel disconnected as my "perspective" or "vision" of the corner (from my position left of the central line of the bike) was different to what the "bike would see."

    I quickly realized that I am tracking through the corner, therefore the bike is tracking through the corner.

    I think (as a general rule) it is very difficult to describe these types of things through written communication........
  9. That's about it. A properly 'engaged' rider, is not along for the ride.
  10. i guess when you feel its becoming more & more effortless thats when your advancing.

    i am not there yet, but it felt great today even in a car park negotiating a tight right hander, because i kept my head up the whole to looked where i was going & the bike just followed....