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N/A | National Cat converters - does the law require one?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Riderman, Jun 20, 2011.

  1. Hi All,

    This is a stupid question, but it seems many people with bikes have no cats. Is it legal to have your cat removed?

    My friend's bike is really loud, and when we've gone for a ride, we have pulled in front of, behind, next to and ridden next to patrol cars, and they seem to do nothing. This is all over Sydney, south west, north, south. A few times they would follow us, run some checks on their computer and then turn off.

    So leads me to ask - do police worry too much about bike's exhausts (noise and cat)?

    Ps. Not this:
  2. Kittens will one day grow up to be cats. We don't like kittens, you do the math.
  3. Vinnie is shocked at the thought you have removed the cat and are killing the environment as a result...

  4. Oh dear, this is now a cat thread isn't it? They're as bad as nodding threads.
  5. Perhaps but im trying hard :cheeky:

  6. cats are the reason cars have towbars
  7. Tard. Clearly you need to ride faster.
  8. No not legal.
  9. Once again, there are no tailpipe emissions regs applicable to bikes in the ADRs. Bikes, therefore, do not require cat converters in order to comply with the ADRs.

    If you live in NSW, your local EPA may have something to say about it (if they find out) but anywhere else, go for your life.

  10. Pat - which ADR is applicable ?

    federal laws ( adr) overrule state laws when there is ambiguity
  11. Can't remember the numbers and can't be arsed to look. However, when I last did, maybe a year ago, the ADRs covering tailpipe emissions did not apply to bikes. Trikes yes (some anyway) but not bikes.

    We get cat converters because they are required in other markets, not because Australia requires them.

    I'm reluctant to state that removal is completely legal because I'm not au fait with non-vehicle specific pollution laws or the powers that NSW appears to have given its EPA. However, I am completely confident that it is not a roadworthiness issue as it is if you take the cat off a car.
  12. cheers Pat
  13. Like PatB said, there's no emissions requirement for a cat to be present on a bike sold in Australia. (Not sure how much longer that will last, tbh)

    Triumph Tiger 1050 in Australia and South Africa has a stainless steel test pipe welded into the exhaust system instead of the catalytic converter, for example.

    I'm not 100% sure about post-sale deletion of a catalytic converter. "Technically" it shouldn't matter given that bikes can be sold brand-new in that condition. And you'd likely only need an engineering certificate saying that the system had been tested to comply with applicable emissions (noise and pollution) standards. If a cat is deleted in the woods, and there's no emissions standard to compare to, does the exhaust system still pass? But such confusion and nonsensical-ness is what bureaucracy thrives upon.
  14. This is a pointless discussion guys.
    ALL motorcycles have to have cat converters that change live cats into dead ones, otherwise how would the kittens die when we speed?
  15. perhaps some people are masturbating whilst they speed

  16. Have to admit that I'm surprised it's still the case, but it is and long may it remain so.
  17. I think even for cars, they don't have to be designed with Cats, but all manufacturers choose too as part of self regulation and meeting emission requirements.

    Interestingly, if a cat is fitted you can cop some pretty hefty fines for removing or modifying it, even though it isn't a requirement to have it fitted in the first place. There was a thread on here dome time ago about that. Can't remember whether the modification rule applied to bikes, as some bikes do have them
  18. True. The emissions standards are performance based. What comes out of the tailpipe is what is measured. How the manufacturer chooses to meet the standard is up to them. The fact that everyone fits cats suggests that it's the cheapest and easiest method though.

    Like I said, what the EPA do in the privacy of NSW is their business. Other states may or may not have similar laws. For bikes, though, it's for the EPA to enforce, though, not the roadworthiness authorities (as I understand it) because removal of the cat does not render a bike non-compliant with any roadworthiness reg that I'm aware of. I will admit, though, to not being fully conversant with any State's Vehicle Standards Rules apart from WA.
  19. On a car in Vic, I went through this with our Subaru GT at christmas. (Victoria)
    For a RWCert, the car must have a Cat fitted if it came out with one, The one on ours had been removed, we got pinged for it. there are several types and the onus is on the owner to show that they comply with the emissions laws, (epa not vicroads). We had a new cat fitted, ($300) took it in for the roadworthy, mechanic took it to the exhaust mob to get it tested, exhaust mob removed new one and fitted a different new one. Said the original one wouldnt comply, they didnt test it and, didnt test the one they supplied, had no paperwork to say either one did or did not comply with EPA regs on a Turbo 2 litre suby.
    I got the $550 bill and spoke very calmly to everyone concerned including the distributor of the original Cat, Information given to me by the distributor was that No aftermarket catalytic converter had been tested to comply with ADR's on our car. Theres 2 main types, ceramic and Stainless steel cores, ceramic cores are usually OEM fitted and collapse after a while causing people to rebuild engines and replace injectors and ignition systems and spend a shit load of money at shonky mechanics. Performance cats are SS cored and have a differing number of cells in them rated at CPI, (cells per inch) performance (not expected to comply with epa) cat is 100cpi, road cat is 300 cpi, My practicle experience is that the so called 'experts' I spoke to, Cant tell which is which by looking down the guts of a new one if it hasnt just come out of a marked box.
    At the end of the day, the 2nd one had no proof it was legal the 1st one had no proof it was illegal so they put the original one back on the car, at no charge for us.
    And that had bugger all to do with bikes but was a nice rant anyway..
  20. Quick thought. It may be that the bike was fitted with a cat at the factory because they need them in the US. It may be that there are no clean air regs for bikes in Aus - don't know. There never used to be, but it's been a while since I checked. There are noise regs in Aus. Does removing the cat make a significant difference to the exhaust noise? I wouldn't think it would be very big, but if the bike was near the limit when tested, and you couldn't demonstrate that it was a standard unmodified exhaust...