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Casey Stoner joins Ducati !

Discussion in 'Racing, Motorsports, and Track Days' at netrider.net.au started by Mickyb V9, Oct 17, 2006.

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  2. Wow!

    So that's why he took out Sete eh? ;)
     
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  3. Sounds like Crashey Stoner is having another whinge. "Oh look - the grass appears greener over there!"

    Did he stop to think that if he stopped crashing, he'd have much more championship points and would be in a much stronger position to bargain with? He'd had the same sort of points as Dani/Melandri. When he crashed out at Estoril, the looks on the faces of the LCR team were more frustrated expressions of "Not again!", as opposed to concerned expressions of "Oh no!".
     
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  4. wonder where sete will go?

    yes +1 to stoner having a good season but this season wasnt that bad....

    also it will be interesting to see if ducati still has the power advantage as honda is using the same engine config also.
     
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  5. Still, it's a nice 21st birthday present for him. Maybe he can use some of the 2 mill to pay back his parents for the money they've invested so far :LOL:
     
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  6. Could be a career killer. :(
    He is short enough to get the most out of the ducati though. Being short seems to work for Capirossi on the Ducati plus Capirex has been a Championship contender most of this year, until he was injured.

    Hmmmm very interesting......
     
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  7. True, but I don't understand this dislike of Casey. He's done incredibly well this year in a second string team that never worked with the Honda or a Motogp bike before. He's had to unlearn a riding style and come to terms with a whole heap of stuff without the support of HRC such as Dani has...

    He would never get the support that Dani gets (Spanish rider, Spanish team) and Melandri is far more experienced and in a different class.

    It would be better to compare him to Elias who's had a similarly indifferent season (but apparently now has a contract for next year!).

    Ducati are no chumps and wouldn't replace Sete with a rider they think can't deliver.
     
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  8. Crashing ar not, Mick Doohan is still tipping Casey as a star of the future, and he does have an eye for it. Don't forget Rossi was a Doohan tip too, back when he was on a 125 and relatively unknown...........
     
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  9. The Only reason I can see it killing his Career is that the Ducati is a brutal bike to ride, and Stoner has already shown he has issues keeping a more sedate Honda on it's feet.

    Well that all follows for the 990s, let's see how the 800s pan out.
     
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  10. It's not that the guy can't ride. He's a great rider. It his diplomatic skills that need a bit of refinement or he'll find himself on the outside like Biaggi.

    Casey has a habit of implicitly bad mouthing those who put a lot of time, effort , and money into him. If he's departing a team who was willing to give him a chance, he could at least be full of praise for their efforts given the difficult circumstances, rather than effectively calling them a second rate team (not a factory team), with second rate parts (I'm fourth in line). Didn't seem to stop Casey consistently setting the fastest speed trap times at almost every single circuit.

    His attitude reminds me of the old adage, "A poor craftsman always blames his tools". Yes, he might have a point, but he doesn't have to shit in the faces of those who were giving him his first chance when few others would.

    I'm pretty sure that they based Lightning McQueen's character in Cars on Stoner. :p
     
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  11. lol! Yes, I agree, but he is still a bit young and infinitely better at it than Westy (who managed to lose a factory ride on a bike that is now a proven race winner - and apparently with almost no new development).

    Person who's impressed the most with their diplomatic skills is Brookes. His PR for both the Ducati team he left and the Bertocchi team for this and next year is an example of how to thank people.
     
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  12. Interesting article.

    People need to understand that this interview occured shortly after the annoucement (within an hour) so Stoner - with all excitement - has not thought about thanking his current team yet. Casey did not say anything bad about the team at all - just stated the facts.

    Someone meantioned speed trap speeds - so what - you can build the bike to go fast in a straight line and that is terrific, but if you cant turn it or the suspension does not behave, then you might as well not race. Look at Ducati in the early days - awesome in a stright line - but hard to turn and control.

    One advantage about the 800cc environment coming in 2007 is that it will be more like a 250cc bike than ever...... 800cc, 17,000 rpm, lighter, etc.... Seems to me that people who are more experienced in 250cc and roders that have not un-learned this art will be the most likely contenders for next year.

    Makes me wonder about Hayden - I think he will suffer next year.

    Just my 2cents worth
     
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  13. cejay said:
    Surely they've been wrong before though? :)

    I think he's got the goods to do well. He's just got to iron out a few problems that's all. :) It's his first year with the big guys/bikes remember....give him time. :)
     
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  14. Rosie makes an excellent point....

    IT IS his first year.... I think this is Haydens third????? Think back to Haydens first year....... He is now HRC's top rider.....
     
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  15. He's running the same Honda engine (pretty much) as the other Honda riders. The speed trap reference is valid, because it indicates that the bike is cornering just as well, if not better, than the other Honda bikes, because Casey is able to get the drive out of the corners to achieve those speed trap speeds that the other Honda riders aren't achieving.

    Yes, if he was riding a bike that had no similarities to anyone else, speed trap times would be irrelevant, but if he's complaining about second rate machinery in comparison to someone else who's riding almost the exact same bike, and he's consistently setting lap times within 0.2s of everyone else on the same type of bike, and the fastest trap times indicating that he's getting better drive, it's fairly safe to assume that he's not exactly riding inferior machinery on the basis of all that.
     
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  16. Hey Cathar,

    Thanks for the feedback, but I think you are missing the point.....

    Qualifying is completely different to racing - the bike setup is also a little different as you are running sticker rubber. So, the way a bike squats on good rubber versus bad rubber is a major difference.

    The way you differentiate a good bike against an average bike is how it behaves in less than ideal conditions - in this case - tyre wear.

    Under ideal and excellent conditions, his bike behaves well - when the tyres reach their end of life is when his bike does not handle so well. Now, this is due to:
    Chasis
    Engine - power delivery
    Suspension setup
    Rider experience....
     
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  17. Let me give you an example. I ride a GSX1400 and am always looking at making it ride better - yes, I know, buy a GSXR1000 K7... :grin:

    OK, the things I have discovered is as follows:

    Tyres
    Only rubber that works for me is Dunlop 208RR or GP's. Have tried them all and none of them behave the way I like to ride the bike or the way the bike is setup

    Suspension
    Have played with this to the point where I am wearing the clickers down. Have found a good setting, but far from perfect. New oil, new innards, etc.....

    Chasis
    Well, not much I can do here

    Weight
    2 to 3kg makes a difference to the way the bike handles..... YES, it really does.

    Tyre pressure
    I think we all agree this is an issue

    Anyway, my point is, there are alot of factors that need to be considered and a satellite team will NEVER have the latest components. Why are the latest components important - well, if they were not an issue, why would you ever update bikes every year.....
     
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  18. Let me give you an example. I ride a GSX1400 and am always looking at making it ride better - yes, I know, buy a GSXR1000 K7... :grin:

    OK, the things I have discovered is as follows:

    Tyres
    Only rubber that works for me is Dunlop 208RR or GP's. Have tried them all and none of them behave the way I like to ride the bike or the way the bike is setup

    Suspension
    Have played with this to the point where I am wearing the clickers down. Have found a good setting, but far from perfect. New oil, new innards, etc.....

    Chasis
    Well, not much I can do here

    Weight
    2 to 3kg makes a difference to the way the bike handles..... YES, it really does.

    Tyre pressure
    I think we all agree this is an issue

    Anyway, my point is, there are alot of factors that need to be considered and a satellite team will NEVER have the latest components. Why are the latest components important - well, if they were not an issue, why would you ever update bikes every year.....
     
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  19. Skuffy, he sets fastest the trap times, and comparable lap time during races, that's what I was referring to. I wasn't considering qualifying at all, as that's not representative at all, just as you say.

    What I'm saying is that from externally visible criteria, it's not obvious at all that Casey was necessarily running inferior machinery. He's within 0.1-0.2s of the lead runners per lap during a race, he gets consistently good drive out of corners such that he is able to post the fastest race-lap trap speeds, he's run at or near the front in almost every single race, but usually falls away a little by around mid-race, which would presumably be a tyre wear/management issue due to inexperience.

    It's not clear to me that he's running around the track with an inferior bike at all.

    Still, unless we stuck Rossi on Casey's bike, I guess we'd never know. Casey, if he didn't crash, would have sufficient points to place roughly equal third between Pedrosa/Melandri/Capirossi. That's pretty elevated company to being in, especially in one's first year of MotoGP, to be effectively a third-place runner but for dropping the bike.

    The kids got talent. I just don't believe that he's running second-rate machinery.

    I guess where I'm coming from, is that he seems so intent to convince himself that the machinery that he's on is second rate, that he's leaving himself absolutely no excuses left if things go wrong at Ducati. I hope that they don't.

    I just have a pretty strong feeling though that if Rossi, or even Hayden, was on Casey's bike, they would still be leading the championship at this point of the year.
     
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  20. But they're infinitely more experienced.

    I actually don't remember him bagging his machinery as such. The article you refer to, he makes the point that satellite riders don't get the top parts and that satellite riders have not won a championship. He wants to give himself the best possible opportunity to win a title and he believes that a factory team would provide that.

    I do remember him commenting on his riding style and how he needs to adjust that to suit the machinery. Is he a whinger? I'm not so sure, I can certainly name a few others who are....McCoy, West, Biaggi, Gibernau, Hayden (at PI)....

    At least he wasn't gifted a ride unlike some of the Italian and Spanish riders.

    I'm biased, I don't know why, I just like the guy. To me, he has some good qaulities and the bits I don't like are mainly due to his age. He's just turned 21 and as long as he gets some good advice he'll learn to temper those tantrums. At least he seems to have a personality :p
     
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