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Car park practice

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by MREVOX, Jul 4, 2009.

  1. Now that I've got 1250km's on the bike, and I'd say I'm "fair" riding on the freeway, suburban roads, etc... I thought I would use the local train station car park to practice slow manoeuvring and emergency braking.

    I decided to concentrate on U-turns for the slow manoeuvring today. So I tried doing them through two car spaces (as I had read about here).

    I'd say I managed to do it successfully about 7 times out of around 30 attempts. A lot of the attempts were close, but I just went over the line on the other side or put my foot down... and the rest were just woeful "missed by a mile"... lol

    I figured out that you have to ever so slightly have some power by using the friction point - still having trouble with that, but I think the main problem is figuring out when and how far I should turn.

    Then, I moved on to emergency braking. I made a couple of attempts at the speed required in the test (20-25km/h) and didn't seem to have any problems. However, understanding that 20-25km/h is not the most realistic of situations, I tried at around 40-45km/h and noted that I was fishtailing.

    I understand this is because I'm not applying even pressure on both brakes... but am trying to figure out which one I should apply more to in this circumstance. Am I not applying enough to the front or rear in this case?

    I'd love to go to the Sunday sessions in Homebush, but I am currently on a roster which gives me my weekends on Fri/Sat, and probably will be for some time :evil:

    Any pointers would be appreciated :)
  2. I find with emergency braking, i probably only use the rear brake about 20-30% with most pressure on the front brakes to really compress that suspension to load it up so i get more stopping power (read: grip).
    And unless i leaned a little to the left or right, it wouldnt start to slip from under me.
    It happened slightly one time and because i took it quite seriously (as you should) i made sure to not make it happen again...

    On the road is a different story as the time you need to brake is not always the most convenient.

    My understanding is that you really shouldnt be fishtailing at all as that means you dont have that compression needed on the front end to stop harder/faster as more weight is transferred to the rear of the bike. So try lightly apply the rear brake instead of pressing on it and see how you go.

    EDIT: So my way of doing it would be, press 15% front brake to set up the suspension, then squeeeeeeeeze harder and harder till i stop, and use the rear brake lightly to possibly help from popping a stoppie, but hopefully not enough to take too much away from the front as mentioned above. :) It all happens quite quickly but thats the process i think about.
  3. I'm pretty sure my QRIDE instructor was telling me to aim for around 35km/h in the emergency breaking test. 20-25km/h seems a bit slow??
  4. Why muck around with the back brake as well when doing an emergency stop? As a newcomer, I found that I never did it right when bringing the back brake into it as well. I'd usually not maximise the front brake potential because I diverted some attention to the back brake. I think that using the back in e-braking is something to add to your bag of tricks when you've got e-braking with only the front brake downpat. To add to that, I usually had my back wheel a little off the ground when I was almost at a stop when I did the e-brake in my licence test. That shows that when you've maximised your braking power from the front you don't have to worry about the back brake because it'll contribute very little.
  5. I was correct, but for Qride, not MOST.


    Execute braking procedures

    Complete a controlled braking exercise on demand within the following

    braking to a stop from approximately 40 km/h, within a maximum
    distance of 18 metres including reaction time.

    From memory, everyone in my group was pulling their bikes up in about 5-10 metres from 35-40km/h.

    Doing e-braking at 20km/h doesn't seem to replicate real life e-braking in any meaningful way whatsoever..

    I'm just throwing this information out there.
  7. E-Braking, use more front. If you have come from a car you will have a habit of using the foot brake too much, generally speaking.

    As for my Q-Ride, I was VERY happy with my instructor, our E-Stops were from what ever speed we got up to, I think most people were probably around the 40km/h or so. All I know is that I was into 3rd hard on the throttle, and carrying the back wheel a bit.

    Almost makes me want to go back and do it again.
  8. Yep, as you say, riding the clutch at this friction point smooths out the power delivery. Also, if you haven't already, try doing the U-turn while using the rear brake a little bit. It will feel like you are using the engine to pull against the drag of the rear brake and make things much more predictable, controllable and smooth. Thirdly, never underestimate how much of a huge difference it makes to look where you are going. When you start your u-turn, really snap your head around so you are looking where you want to end up. I would confidently bet money that those times where you "woefully" went wide, you were looking towards the edge of the 'road', not looking back up along the road where you want to end up.

    Also, there is a bit of a difference it leaning at really low speed. Try doing uturns where you stay pretty much upright and you lean the bike under you, and then try keeping the bike upright and you leaning off the bike more. See what difference it makes and which is easier for you. Also, you will notice that as the bike feels like it is tipping in too far, giving a little more power will stop it tipping in. Another reason why using the friction point can help. If you mess around with it you'll see what I mean :)

    As others have said, the front brake does most of your braking, especially when e-braking. The main one to focus on is ensuring you get the front brake more and more efficient. Focusing on the difference between grabbing a handful of brake suddenly vs the 'setup' (taking slack of of brakes, suspension, tyres) and 'squeeze' (easing on the tyres). This becomes quicker, though as you get better at it. You will notice that you can squeeze it on more and more and the front retains a lot of grip. It can actually pull you up if done progressovely. Pure repetition of this will have it drilled into your head enough that you can do it when it is a real emergency situation. The practice is important as it needs to transfer from being a conscious skill to an automatic one.

    Regarding the rear brake, yes the rear will slide around if locked up. Using less rear for the given amount of braking will help this. Also ensuring you are upright and riding straight will reduce this. In a real world situation you may not be perfectly straight, so you do need to learn how to brake hard and not slide the rear.

    Every time I arrive at home, I normally e-brake in the driveway :grin:
  9. So thats how riders drop their bikes in their own driveways :p
  10. No, the closest I have come is when lifting the front wheel going down the driveway....now that was a close call :LOL:
  11. you only had to do emergency braking @ 25km/hr for ur test?!?!

    when i did q-ride we had to be doing 40-50km/hr. Squeeze the front brake. Roll your hand forward on the throttle so you shut it off and then squeeze it with your fingers, around or below your lowest joint on ur fingers. At least thats how i got taught. I was stopping within a few metres and didnt lock up or fishtail in the 15 times i did it

    like myself and many others have said, Squeeze the front brake, dont just pull it really fast. You can still squeeze the brake and do it fast, you just have to keep practising

  12. Regarding "20-25kph has nothing to do with emergency stop technique!!!!11zomg";

    It has everything to do with real emergency stops; if you lock up the front wheel and don't immediately release it, you will lowside and crash. If you try to steer at the same time, you will lowside and crash. The fundamental techniques required are the same, but at higher speeds the risk of injury should you crash is greatly increased. But they're only testing to see whether you have the fundamental techniques.

    Otherwise they should be getting L platers out onto the freeway to do some emergency stops from 110kph. Are you planning to buy a litrebike in the future? Better pass the test from 260kph then. :-k

    Regarding "how much to steer in a U-turn"; For the smallest possible turning circle, you need to steer all the way into the turn, all the way until the handlebars are hard up against the steering lock. Turned all the way to the right.

    To maintain your balance you then carefully adjust your speed. If you slow down, the bike will tend to "fall inwards". If you increase your speed, the bike will tend to "stand up/fall outwards". By feathering the clutch and dragging the rear brake, you can maintain your balance by making subtle changes to your speed.

    Obviously if the bike stands up all the way, you've picked up too much speed and you'll have to straighten up your steering to prevent the bike falling out too far.
  13. Thanks for the advice everyone. Will try to put this I to practice thos Friday/Saturday. :)
  15. Applied the advice today.. braking is a lot better, although I still think I'm a bit too "grabby" on the front.

    Still having some issues with the u-turns, but I seem to be getting a lot closer to getting it right.
  16. It's funny, after giving you that advice, I am now re-learning how to do it now I have transitioned to the 675. The turning circle is crraaapp compared to my old bike when upright as the bars only move a little bit.

    So I have to use the other techniques even more :)