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capitalism - how long can it last?

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by ad91on, May 8, 2011.

  1. elaborate and discuss.

    My argument is that, as with all dominant social structures ever in power, the people will being to understand this massive rift between rich and poor and cease to adhere and believe in the capitalist ideal of anyone being able to be at the top, starting a social revolution.

    I cite the evidence of 5000 years of human social reform, enforcement and subsequent revolution.

    How long can it last? Has it already reached it's peak along with oil? Have we gone too far? Do we all have too much to lose?

    What if everyone stopped valuing money?

    And where would we go from here?

  2. We can't even get people to protest even though we're turning into slaves, humanity has no hope at this rate to topple over the government (imo).
  3. What if everyone just went riding?
  4. and that has what exactly to do with the thread?

    I think capitalism will last as long as humans last and perhaps even longer still. Nothing else really works.
  5. Capitalism in some form will probably remain for as long as someone wants to be leader of the pack/alpha male/etc. For as long as someone wants to be better than someone else, capitalism to some extent will still be around.

    But I don't think having home foreclosures while executives take home exorbitant bonuses is just. And I think more and more people who struggle to make a living will realize this.
  6. Free markets, free people.

    I think there's a lot of concern and reaction against the size of government, and the legitimacy of state intervention in private affairs is increasingly being questioned. Hopefully someone like ron paul or gary johnson will be elected to address this.

    I think capitalism, as in private ownership of the means of production, is a very popular and successful idea that will persist. Capitalism solves a few key problems better than other systems, namely the creation of incentives and the floating determination of prices and values. Supply and demand, rather than any central control, is the only way to accurately gauge the value of a litre of milk.

    That is the problem of fiat currency, especially with the federal reserve complicit in flooding the economy with cheap cash in response to any threatened downturn in the economy, the value of money is constantly undermined. This is the reason there is advocacy for a return to the gold standard or something similar.
  7. I don't see how those things are avoidable. How do you have loans without foreclosures? When is it morally justified for someone who fails to meet their mortgage payments not to have their loan foreclosed? The individual has moral responsibility to only enter into a contract they can service, or to bear the consequences.

    It is due to having fiat currency, and the federal reserve artificially maintaining low interest rates (which is a problem of state intervention in the economy, not of laissez faire capitalism), that the problem of unsustainable loans and an unstable economic system of booms and recessions is created.

  8. It is morally justifiable to help someone in need when you have far more than enough for yourself.

    I'm sure everyone can agree on that. Financial causes aside, all sub-prime, derivative, investment bank mumbo-jumbo aside, i think everyone can agree that if someone is being forced out of their home, and someone else can help them, it would be morally righteous to do so.

    Tell me I'm wrong.
  9. it may not always be best ethical practice to provide financial assistance to someone who has failed on their mortgage, if assisting them in this way would perpetuates harmful habits and beliefs. If they have addictions, or other unwise financial habits, allowing them to fail in a limited sense may teach them necessary lessons to live a better life in the long term.

    In general, yes it would often be charitable for someone else to bail the person in need out (although perhaps unwise, if you expect to ever be paid back, considering the individual is obv a financial risk).

    It's not morally wrong for the bank, or anyone else to refuse to help this person, voluntarism is key.

    It's also morally justified for the bank, investors to expect a return of interest on loaned money, and to initiate foreclose for breakages of any contract entered into voluntarily.
  10. Capitalism will last.

    Democracy is already dying though, which should be the real point.
  11. Unfettered capitalism never lasts but capitalism with checks and balances will be round for a long time
  12. Captialism will last as long as humans want. Capitalism enables consumerism. Consumerism is easy. The line "Don't think, Buy" comes to mind.
    Capitalism will last forever for one reason... Private companys rule the world. You can go on about governments controlling everything, but think about this. Does Julia gillard control australian policy? No, her party does. Who controls the party? The party director. Who controls the party director? The Financial backers of the party. Buisiness men, CEOs, Private companys.

    Private companys own the majority of your food. They own the infrastructure to harvest food, supply food. Monsanto has even Patented food. They own the Genetic structure to a variety of different fruits and vegetables. If a monsanto plant is cross-germinated with your plants, the seeds contain Monsanto's intellectual property... So you better be willing to pay licencing for those seeds, or forfit them to monsanto.
    They recently purchased a company that had perfected a plant that, when cross-germinated, produced seeds that were sterile. Would be terrible if plants began becoming sterile... But dont worry, Mr monsanto has plant you can buy... for a price. Hell, Private companys own armys (think blackwater worldwide) So if you dont pay, they have the means to come and get it from you.
    Want to know why the government is reluctant to spend money on roads? I would bet a fair sum that there is a company backing each of the partys that could build private, tolled roads. As said in previous threads, people NEED to drive. You need roads to drive on. That'll be $4.50 to take my road thanks...

    And the second the government makes the slightest move that compromises their position, all they need to make mention of is "the government is coming for your freedom" and the poor, scared, ignorant little people all go running to the nice big private company. "You can live free" they will say..... "for a price"
  13. CapItalism will last because it's all most people In western countries have ..

    And what do you suggest as an alternative ?? I'm open to ideas
  14. Spot on. All experiments in socialism have failed because 90% of the population don't have the drive to advance.

    all capitalism needs to work to the benefit of everybody is some checks and balances, chiefly being the prevention of monopolies and oligopolies.
  15. That and its tendency to dissolve into a pile of brown dust and blue sparks when it rains :wink:.
  16. well it's already out-lasted communism....
  17. Morally justifiable yes, morally essential and forced to by the government no.

    I donated substantial amounts of money to the bush fire appeals only to see the government still holding on to 10's of millions in donated funds years after the event.

    I was about to make a substantial donation to the flood appeal (I'd already made a smaller one) when the government mooted the possibility of a compulsory levy for higher income earners so I didn't make that donation.

    I am happy to donate money, I resent being forced to and I know lots of people who feel the same.

    It's my money and I want to control to say where and to which organization the money I donate goes. If an organization espouses views that I don't agree with then I'm going to donate to a different charity.
  18. Capitalism requires endless growth. In a finite world the economy cannot grow forever. At some point the world economies will collapse and it won't be pretty.

    Growth in the worlds economy is absolutely dependent on more oil being available and cheap. Just about everything we do and have in the modern world is dependent on cheap and abundant oil. The down slope of Peak Oil will bring and end to that.
  19. Has it??? There are still Communist governments and communist parties in most counties.

    I'm never sure what Capitalism means, there are no real totally free markets anywhere as far as I can see.

    A modern democracy tends to allow a large degree of personal autonomy which allows free enterprise to occur to a certain extent, but provide/enforces the checks and balances that the free market needs to stop it.

    Communism/Socialism doesn't work we're not altruistic enough, Capitalism doesn't work either mainly for the same reasons...

    As far as I'm concerned a modern democracy allows the best of both, whilst restricting their excesses...

    Obviously IMHO, YMMV...
  20. We've never had real communist states anyway. The versions of communism around were and are communist by name only.
    Even China, a so called Communist state experiences strong Capitalism, as does Vietnam.
    Cuba is slowly joining the 21st century and if it wasn't stifled by the Americans it would also be a more flourishing country than it is currently.