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Capacity Limits?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by galdavin, Jul 24, 2005.

  1. We are all aware of the Victorian engine capacity restrictions, I'm sure. Nothing bigger than a 266cc for any Learner and Probationary Rider in the state... however, a few people I know of are riding around on 600's and the like.

    What do you guys think about this? I think going from a 250 to being able to have anything unrestricted up to and over 1000cc is a huge bloody step.

  2. depends.

    Some 600s might be lethal for a learner, but some big bikes are just more tractable.

    Conventional wisdome seems to be that you don't need to upgrade to a bigger bike until you can ride the tits off a 250.

    Some bigger bikes are fine.

    What worries me is people who think that the only way to enjoy motorcycles id to go faster, and the only way to go faster is to get a bigger more powerful bike.

    But what would a slightly pissed old fart know?
  3. Its much more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow.
  4. Agreed .
  5. It's not the fastest bike that wins, it's the loudest one :)
  6. the extra torque a bigger bikes has makes it easier to ride, you don't have to rev the ring out of it to get away on lights, it's more forgiving if you're in the wrong gear and more stable on the highway, especially on windy days.
    The only downside is the extra weight and mass.

    apart from the legalities on not being allowed to ride them i don't see a problem. Heaps of people up here do q ride and get 600's etc, and it's usually only the people who go out and buy litre bikes that get into grief.
  7. Claculations

    The calculation of a 250cc limit must be based on some criteria (probably power-to-weight ratio??)
    If we are going to have learners and probationary riders restricted to 250cc, unless the authorities institute a second-tier set of restrictions after that, then the open market and common sense determines the next step. A 600 is a good next step, but a rider just off his Ps can buy a 2300cc Rocket Three; if it's legal, it's legal.
    My 600 has more than enough power-to-weight ratio to satisfy my mediocre demands, but a good rider may graduate from a 250 to a 1400 and be right at home; good luck to him/her, I say (slightly enviously :)!
  8. Personaly I would set up the licencing alot differently...

    More like 16oy to 25yo can start off on a 125cc and no freway riding High visibility vest etc... after thrashing the crap on a 125 for TWO years allow them to get a 250cc bike (no 2 strokes). Only after a year of that alow them to go for the next step up to 600cc. Than if they have been good for a year or two allow them to go for "open licence"...

    As for mature age riders (ie. people who are over 25yo) at first keep them to a weight to power restrictions in the first 2 years... then alow them to go for the "open licence"
  9. I think NSW has the best compromise with the LAMS system, based on power-to-weight ratio.

    As far as graduating, we have a number of riders here already who've gone from a 250 to a 1000 after doing their "P"s and haven't experienced any problem at all.

    It ALL depends on your atitude.
  10. Agreed RC.. Attitude is the key, you can end up just as dead riding a 250cc bike as a 1100cc bike.

    Here they are adopting the NSW LAMs system, and possibly adding the requirement that you need to pass an advanced course to ride greater than a 600cc .

    Now why they scrap the 250cc capacity limit in favour of a Power/weight limit, citing capacity is not an indication of a bikes performance, then try to implement another capacity based restriction is beyond me.

    If concerned about increasing bike performance, not extend the LAMs and make it a three tiered system... ie learner approved, Intermediate approved and Open (or sports etc)

  11. I might be wrong but doesn't Japan have a graded licence system where you can only move up from say a 400cc to a 600cc bike if you pass a riding test and are willing to pay more for your licence and yearly rego. Don't think such a system would work to good out here though given the popularity of large cruisers though it's a hell of a lot better than the U.S. system of ride whatever the hell you want as a first bike, helmet optional.
  12. Yes they do, and part of the test is a test where they lay the bike down on its side on the ground, and, if you can't pick it up by yourself, you don't get the licence!!!
  13. And why not extend the current Bike license system (pre-learners,-pre "P"s practical instruction) to all road users, with a Learner Approved Vehicle" scheme? Better still, a "Competency Matched Vehicle" scheme matched to the vehicles in question.

    Don't just target P platers, but extend it to anyone wanting to drive more that a bog standard car. ("sports", large 4wd, >6 seat capacity, towing >6x4 trailer, motorhome etc)
    That should keep the beaucrats happily shuffling paper and tweaking stats for years, generate a whole swag of profitable small business enterprises in training people, and might even help keep the roads a tad safer.

  14. Someone on a restricted license shows up for a group-ride on a 600 (or such)....if I'm the ride-caller/-leader....i'll leave them at the meeting point.
    No go !!!
    As long as they hurt themselves...fine. If they take out somebody else on that ride I'd feel somewhat responsible for the legal/ insurance mess afterwards (knowing about the fact, that is).

    Apart from that...I like the LAM's idea, in my opinion some of the bikes listed as LAM's are NOT a good choice for an L-plater though...
    Learning/ riding a slow-revving, relaxed higher-capacity bike would prevent quite a few crashes that often happen with high-strung/"nervous"/ rider-attention-seeking 250 scream-pots, as a new rider is too busy keeping this thing on the road rather than being relaxed enough to watch roads/ surroundings.
  15. People tend to wrongly associate accident risk with engine size - have a look at the motogp, the 125 + 250 classes have just as many stacks as the premier class :) Anyway, I stacked my 250 heaps of times, because it was 20 years old an had crap brakes and suspension, my new 600 is heaps safer and predictable any day of the week.
  16. like a couple of you, i think the NSW way of doing it is much better than our vic, and to a lesser extent, so is the QLD way.

    In NSW, you can ride a nice cruisy commuter like the GS500, but you cant ride a little 2 stroke race bike with lights like the RGV. this actually makes sense, the GS is a relaxed bike, not all too quick, and promotes safe riding much better than the racey position, handling and power of a stroker.

    QLD has that awesome QRide thing happening which gets ppls to actually do a little bit of riding in order to pass a test, i'm just not sure on letting these newly licenced rider jump on whatever the hell they want :?

    IMO, the perfect system would be a qride similar test for both Ls & Ps, NSW style restrictions for the L/P periods and a KMs travelled based period rather than time (i know, dreaming here :LOL: ) that way you'd ensure that these ppls at least have the basics down pat properly before jumping on the road and some decent skills before jumping on that K5 gixxer :wink:
  17. I like the american system.. it's a form of natural selection
  18. Doesn't seem to have done much good so far does it??

    Or, do we have to wait several million years??
  19. natural selection is a neverending thing. 1 stupid person dies, 2 more are born :? evolution can only do so much :LOL:
  20. This has all been said before. I came straight off my zzr on to the zx12r. It is much safer than the little bike for me because of where i live. The only problem is to many immature people ride with there wrist and not there head. I guess it would be good in the real world to have gradual upgrades, but seriously just as much damage can be done on a 600 or a 1300, and who can honestly afford it.