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Can you ride a bike too hard...?

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by Zeiss, Oct 1, 2011.

  1. Ok, got me a Street Triple R 2012 model, approx. 2 months old. Started having issues with the gearvposition indicator malfunctioning and then the engine warning light coming on. Took it to the dealer (Melboune), and got it fixed with 2 very interesting responses, both of which blamed me....

    1. Apparently, the front sprocket was caked in chain lube (which I bought from them), and was causing it to stick etc...* I can buy that, except I am not that vigilant with the lube, (for my bike chain..!) and in 2,000K I have probably done it twice (once after a ride, and once just before [which I know is not the right way to do it], but I don't have a stand.* He was saying that as I was using too much, it was flicking off the chain and clogging up the sensor etc.* Thing is that it kind of makes sense, but seems like a poor excuse for the cause of the problem.* I will see how it goes, and I guess get a rear stand and be more vigilant in maintenance.

    2. The other thing he said had to do with what I figured out was cause the issue, which was 'floggin' the bike.* So here is my second question - the max torque output is at 11,500rpm (right?), and if I am in 1st gear and hit that the bike really moves, but changing into second was a bit of a crunch, and there is no way I can push second up to 11,500rpm without reaching serious speeds, which is above any speed limit on any roads I ride that I would totally loose my license.... So is gunning it in 1st bad for the clutch and gear box, should I be hitting second asap and loosing all that torque until I push it up again in second....?

    It seems like my problems with the bike have to do with my bad riding and poor maintenance....... any thoughts or suggestions... Is it possible to ride a bike too hard?
  2. It is possible to ride a bike incorrectly... Whether you are or not, it's hard to say.

    Sudden acceleration & de-acceleration in first can be a bit hard on the gear box, are you riding to redline then shifting or riding up & down the revs in first?

    Without looking at the figures max power is probably 11,500 RPM, max torque will probably be less. A triple can be ridden either like a twin, keep the revs low & in the torque or rev the hell out like an i4.

    Either way should be fine, unless you're doing something wrong.
  3. No really as long as your not over revving (bike cant go any more in that gear)probably change your rpm alittle lower maybe between 7-10 rpm maybe the crunch wont occur when changing gear,you dont have to rev out the clock to get max speed you can feel when she needs to change ,dont have much knowledge about the street triples would that be a 600 0r 6735 triumph,each bke performs diff you have to find out the pos-negs not that their would be any, of different rev and torque specs,good luck mate hope that helps.
  4. Sounds like you need to read up on what the difference is between power & torque, the rpm you listed would most likely be where the peak power is, not the peak torque which will be somewhere around 7000-9000 rpms at a guess..
  5. Claimed max power... 92.5kW @12,500rpm
    Claimed max torque... 72Nm @11,700rpm

    I've had that crunch a few times when I've had the bike into 9-11,000rpm zone before changing into second. Never worried about it all that much though. Bit of a weird one about the caked on the front sprocket. I can't see how anyone could apply so much grease in just two applications!
  6. Bikes don't have that much torque. They don't need it as they are relatively light.
    Torque is simply the twisting force of the crank. Add hp to it and you have work load and the speed needed to do the job in a certain amount of time.
    Did you buy lube or chain wax ??? Either way it sucks @ 2months old and been lubed twice. Even the fact that lube can affect a gear postition senor is suss to me.
    And just because it can go to 11,500 does not mean you have to.
    I do it to new bikes becaue they are not mine. How long did you wait after you bought it to hit the limiter.
  7. Claimed max torque usually states where it will hold it too. Not where it starts it.
  8. That sounds well off, I'd expect it to be closer to 5252 RPM than redline...

    Here's the 2008 model:

  9. ha ha well done the magic figure. Almost a ?? Fibernachie ??? ha ha What is his 1.26 or somehting. Love that stuff.
    What is the saying... it is better to make torque and hp higher in the rev range to take advantage of the gearbox.
    5252 is where hp becomes more important than torque.
    A bike revs from 0 to lets say 15,000 rpm. It's LIGHT (low work rate) and has a 6 speed gearbox
    A truck is big and heavy. revs from 0 to maybe 3,300. Usual rev range form gear to gear is 2,500 to say 3,000 and has from a 12 to 18 and more speed gear box with a split diff. Because it's heavy. It has a huge work load. It doesn't give two hoots about hp. It want's torque and bucket loads of it.
  10. regarding the gear position indicator: mine does exactly the same thing mostly in wet conditions. The gear indication flicks around from 1st to 2nd and back, and sometimes 2nd to 3rd. Is that what you mean? I don't know about the chain lube causing it, seems more to do with water in my case.

    did you check the error code the ECU was giving? What exactly caused the engine light to come on?
  11. There is a thing called mechanical sympathy,it involves feeling how the machine likes to be treated,you can hammer on anything and get the resulting breakage and cost.Once in a while its fun to go hard but redlining all the time in 1st to me is being a bit brutal to say it lightly.It takes some skill to become smooth and light handed in a machine but is to me the best way to ride,less breakage and faster on the road.When you say you lubed your chain twice in 2 months for it o cake up to the point of clogging the workings it would have taken you to empty a can each time to achieve that,are you riding through deep mud or something?
  12. I'd be dubious about stringing out a sub-2k engine to quite such an extent on a regular basis. I know modern engines don't require that much running in but it doesn't do any harm to let them settle down a bit before demanding everything they have to give.
  13. What are you doing? Trolling?

    I have the regular 675, and really, there is just no need to rev it above 8k for general riding. I'm usually between 4-8k, for regular riding, whatever gear that means, i criuse around 4k most of the time. At highway speeds, i am around 6k

    Why the fek you are reving the crap out of the bike for, is beyond me.???

    If you are doing what you say, then you know nothing about bikes or how to ride them and should seek out a few courses, before you stuff the bike up.

    As for the neural light, sometimes it is hard to find neutral between 1st and second, constantly clicking up/down. But since i changed the oil from the first run-in stuff, that helped alot.
    Unless you are an idiot, there is no need to be reving the crap out of the bike in first and then crunching into 2nd, and shutting of the throttle to slow down. That's just retarded!

    Save the upper rev ranges for where you can use them out on the open road.
    Running over about 12k, just is'nt necessary, unless you're on the track and are using it for overhead on specific sections between corners.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. The only way you'd clog up the area around the drive sprocket bad enough for it to be a problem, would be that if you used the whole can of chainlube on each of the occasions you lubed the chain.

    It is much better to apply a light coat often than a big coat seldom. It's better not to fill up the whole drive sprocket area with dirty old chain lube, but I find it hard to imagine that you've done that in two applications. I think you're being lied to.

    Raven has a point. What do you need to pulling those kind of revs in 1st for? And if you're getting a 'crash' out of the box on the change, then I suspect you're using the clutch and conventional change, and doing it all too slowly - so the revs drop a long way before you get to the lever part. Maybe I've got it wrong, but that's how it sounds. If so, I'd investigate quick clutchless changes, and learn how to do them right in the mid range (about 6 ~ 8k) and then use that technique in the upper reaches when you have it mastered.

    I may be misreading or misunderstanding what you're saying, and if that's the case I'm sorry - no wish to patronise you - but if you don't know how to change gears properly at nearly redline revs, then perhaps you shouldn't be revving that high.
  15. Aahhh, at last some sanity prevails.............was sitting here reading this and for the life of me I couldnt understand myself why one would have to wring the fcuking neck off a 'triple' like that all the time........[-(

    Admittedly, my mind is in a conundrum and quandary as I decide whether to go for a ride wearing no safety gear whatsoever.......which fashion thongs to wear...... and whether to put my right glove on first, or my left..?? :-s

  16. He has obviously just read that you change at max torque, but that advice is really for learners on underpowered bikes.
  17. There is a clear benefit to new riders, i agree, but i don't think it is advice should be for Learners only. Being able to work with the power delivery of your bike, is wise for any rider.
    If the op is changing at max torque then he does'nt know where it is. He is changing at more or less maximum HP, which is not a requirement, and rather ill-informed to do so.

    The op sounds like a learner, who's bought himself a 675-R, and does'nt know what to do with it.
  18. Why 5252?

    I've tried to explain torque and horsepower to a few people in the car world before, so I'll give it a crack here too.

    First of all, torque and HP are measured in different units, so even though they are being displayed on the same graph you cannot draw any conclusions from the HP curve crossing the torque curve at any given point. It's like drawing a graph with a line for acceleration (measured in m/s^2) and speed (in m/s) and trying to draw conclusions from where the two cross. It's meaningless.

    That brings me to my next point. The two graphs are related. If you had only the torque curve, you could plot the horsepower curve, and vice-versa. The absolute height of the torque curve describes the slope of the horsepower curve. This is similar to how the absolute height of an acceleration graph describes the slope of a speed graph.

    The mathematical relationship between torque (in ft-lbs) and horsepower is:

    Torque * RPM / 5252 = HP

    So, if you have an engine producing 40 ft-lbs of torque at 6,000 rpm, it is producing 45.7hp. If you could maintain that same amount of torque up to 12,000rpm, you would have 91.4hp. That's roughly what you were seeing on the attached graph.

    Horsepower is, as one of the other posters mentioned, a measure of 'work' - ie. an engine's ability to produce a certain amount of torque at a given rate.

    The next component is the gearbox. The gearbox maintains the same HP at the input & output shaft, but translates one torque/rpm to another. So using the same example above, if the engine is spinning at 6,000rpm making 40 ft-lbs of torque, the gearbox could translate that to 3,000rpm @ 80 ft-lbs of torque, 1,500rpm @ 160 ft-lbs or torque, 375rpm @ 640 ft-lbs of torque, or any other combination that still equals 45.7hp.

    Gearboxes are useful because it takes a lot of torque at the rear wheel(s) to get a vehicle moving, but not as much to maintain that momentum. Think about pushing a car - it takes a fair amount of force to get it moving initially but once it's got up some inertia maintaining that speed isn't difficult.

    Damn, I was going to bring this back on topic and write more about how you're better off shifting at max hp instead of max torque for performance, but this has already been covered, and probably better than I could: http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html.

    Sorry about the ramble.
    • Like Like x 4
  19. That was good!
  20. You said it yourself:

    That's where Torque & Power crossover right? So if power is going up ( x RPM, so it must be), then torque can only remain relatively constant or decrease, right?

    I said I would expect it to closer to there than redline, not exactly right there.

    If I'm mistaken I am happy to be shown my error, I'm genuinely interested in this.