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Can I take my ZX2R 1993 to advance rider training?

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by papermate, May 8, 2007.

  1. Hi. My ZX2R is:

    1. Black ( i thought that was funny).

    2. Slightly Slippy clutch. (As in if i hammer it changing gears the clutch plates feel like they slip and the engine revs more, but the bike doesnt go comparitavly faster.)

    3. Has a new Pierelli on the front.

    4. Has a old Bridgestone on the back, about 2mm from the markers.

    5. Brand new front rotors and disc pads.

    6. Relatively not unco bike rider with 5 months left on restrictions. (I ride everday and read netrider everynight.)

    My question is..... can I take this bike to advance training. Will it explode on me?

    At first I was worried that I would look like fool with a 250 at one of these sessions but I think I can ride better than some of the 1000cc squids ive seen out there. Besides Im getting a new ZX6R in 4 months, so Im happy to bide my time.

  2. Its only 5 mths.. Id wait until you have your new toy.. I waited until I upgraded b4 doin the Stay Upright Advanced.. I kinda used the course as a good way to get to know the bike in a safe environment..

    So id be booking in soon after you have the 1st service done on your new bike..
  3. i agree with tony. also, a thing to take into consideration is that yes, it would be good if you could ride every bike the same, but if you learn to something a bit quicker on the 2 fiddy, then you might stuff it up on a new bike. not saying you will, just sayin, if you plan to purchase this bike in the near future, most likely you'll keep it longer than the 4-6 months you plan on keeping the 250. the benefit is with what you learn in rider training being applied to your new bike, you'll be more comfortable, and more familiar with that bike which should increase your skills, confidence, and have you more relaxed hitting the twisties on your new beast.

    *edit - by relaxed i mean calm, which allows you to better focus on the handling of the bike and your immediate surroundings.
  4. I say take it, the more rider training you do the better. You won't look like a fool. I'm not sure what this advanced course actually means but the ZXR250 is a supersports bike and it can really push the riders limits around a track.
  5. do it on the 250, you can always do one on the new bike, and if you crash the 250 you'll care a whole lot less too
  6. ...and if you do happen to crash...not that I'm saying that you will and not that I'm hoping you will...let me know I need a few bits and pieces :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

    Do it on the 250 the you'll have more fun cos you're not worried so much about binning the new bike so you can enjoy yourself.

    Sure wouldn't be the only one who brings a 250 to advance rider training
  7. Absolutely, like Nightgash said, the more training you do the better, and the advanced courses (bar SBK school) don't teach you anything you can't do on a 250. You'll gain loads from it, get in and do it. When you get your 600, get in and do it again!
  8. Utter tripe.
    No 250, aside from bikes like Aprilia's now defunct RS250, can be classed as a super sport.
    ZXR/CBR250s are sheep in wolves clothing, nothing more.

    Not to say you couldn't or shouldn't take an advanced course on one but personally I wouldn't bother. They ride completely different to bigger bikes so if anything it would build false confidence.
    Depending on where the course is held the lack of power/speed would also be a hindrance, I.E. Phillip Island with its long straight sections and fast corners.
    They have less ground clearance and the pegs tend to scrape fairly early, which could mean a nasty crash.
    The suspension is at best a decade old in design and quite ordinary by modern standards. Another hazard when pushing a little harder than you do on the road.

    Again, not saying you shouldn't do it. But for the best possible learning experience, wait till you have a modern sport bike.
  9. Another option is to take the HART intermediate and/or advanced course. Both are excellent courses and HART provide you with a Hornet 600 to ride. I was able to do the intermediate when I still had 4 months remaining on my restrictions.

    That way you can learn on a more powerful bike and if you drop it no biggy you get to ride home on your 250..

    I seem to remember 2-3 250's on my SU advance course so it aint a prob. if you want to take the course now..

  10. A bit off topic but how would you define a supersports bike? They are the fastest 250 four strokes around. 4 cyclinder 250cc with 4 carburettors revving out to 19,000 rpm how are they not supersports for their 250cc 4 stroke class?
  11. Fastest 250 4 stroke isn't much of a claim to fame. I.E. a single cylinder 250 2 stroke dirt bike outputs more power. But is completely besides the point.
    Of much more importance is frame geometry and quality of suspension and braking components.
    The ZXR/CBR frames are based on a 20+ year old design, ditto their suspension and braking components.
    Contrast bikes like the R6 and CBR600RR which draw directly from R&D developed during the previous year or two racing.
  12. Ultimately it doesn't really matter. It's not about what bike you learn it on - it's about the techniques you learn. These techniques and skills are applicable to any bike you ride.
  13. When you do a CSBS at PI you are not trying to set lap times. It is about learning. And strangely enough, to learn properly requires you to concentrate and practice the drill for that session. If you fail to practice the correct drill, use your brakes when you are not supposed to, or change gears when you have been told not to, you will be blue flagged. Get blue flagged a few more times and you will be asked to come in.

    The people who learn the most and gain the biggest advantage are the ones who attend the school, pay attention during the classroom sessions and practice the drills using the gears and brakes you are allowed to. The people who use it as a very expensive track day tend to learn the least.

    There is nothing you learn at a Superbike School that you cannot apply to the road. Level 1 will sort so many issues out that your riding will go to a new level. Levels 2 and 3 will solidify those gains and 4 will be the icing on the cake that is the joy of riding.

    The 1st year of getting a motorcycle licence is a very risky time. As you become more accustomed to the bike you start riding it more aggressively and the more times you do this the more your confidence increases. Unfortunately this increase in confidence is often not matched by an increase in skill. If you can boost your skills and widen your safety envelope there is a really good chance that you will not only be around to ride the 600/1000 of your dreams, but not pick up the bad habits and issues that people like me spent a long time (and heaps of cash) unlearning.

    So I say, take your bike to school, you will learn bucket loads of good stuff. And have an absolute ball at the same time.
  14. This is the main reason that im considering it. I can see the idiots riding around and its hard not to follow suit. By human nature I can feel myself mimicking some of their actions and feel that im going down that track of bad habits because I don't have any other reference for good direction.

    So - Sydney recommendations please?
  15. Supersports is a class of racing - so a supersports bike in my mind would be no larger than 600cc 4stroke, not quite as modified as a superbike, but more so than a superstock. On average they would be putting out upwards of 140bhp, and run a heavily modified suspension package. If you want any more specific you'll have to look up the FIM rules as to what restricitons are applied to supersports.
  16. Yeah but then then you go onto Kawasaki's website and it list all of its performance bikes as supersports even the GPX! :-k
  17. Just because kawasaki's marketing department says it is doesn't make it so...(its when suzuki's marketing department says so :LOL: ) and i think them listing a gpx as a supersport proves they are deluding themselves (or rather trying to delude everybody else) on the issue.

    A supersports 600 will lap a race track (given even and very capable riders on both machines), quicker than my stock gsxr-1000, by quite a large margin. I think any 4 stroke 250 is going to have a hard time to be competitive with that.


  18. I've been preaching this to a lot of riders down here in Melb, so I don't know how exactly this will apply to you.

    I've done the HART Intermediate and Advanced courses. I found them awesome. I have developed a bit of a unique riding style because of it, but I'm VERY confident around a lot of corners most people aren't. The course showed me how to go slow CONFIDENTLY around all sorts of things, including unfun stuff on the road. Not simply learning to ride fast. But anyway here is what I preach.

    - Once you've got your first bike, and you've ridden around the streets a fair bit getting a bit of confidence, go out on group rides. Go on big group rides, small group rides, through the city, through the twisties, etc.
    ...Over the coming months you’ll learn a lot of lessons off everyone you ride with, make some good friends and feel a lot more confident than you did in your first week of riding. Look back at how far you've come and give you self a pat on the back, assuming you've not acted like an idiot.

    - At about the 6 month mark, give or take, DO the Intermediate HART course or equivalent. Just book it in, don’t procrastinate, or biatch about how expensive it is, or that your friends think its nothing more than a longer P plater course, because thats bull... Book it in, and make your self go to it.
    ...The course will allow you to either ride a 600, or a 250 if you are not feeling confident. I'd stay take the 600, it’s a first taste as to what powerful bikes are like. And its better to learn on them now instead of test riding a big bike. Also THEIR bikes have crash cages, so if you drop it, you wont go home crying, and you can continue to keep learning. Throttle control will have more emphasis on the 600 also, so you’ll learn that properly.
    ...The course is very much step by step. Listen to them and do as they say. I still had a lot of bad habits from my months of riding when I did the course, but I was open to change, and they know that, they are happy to give you critique if you want it.
    ...Each little exercise will feel fairly quick, by the time lunch time came around, I wanted to keep going non stop while I was hyped up, I wanted to practice more, and you will later in the day.
    ...After lunch you'll do a few more exercises, then you’ll do the entire course in one big loop for a while.
    ...Towards the end of the day, you'll be zipping around this maze of a course, the size of a small shopping center car park, tipping your self and the bike RIGHT through around the tightest little corners. You'll see others doing the same and go "hey, I'm just cruising along, and I'm catching up to the guy! What the heck do I look like on the bike? :D"

    You come out of the course feeling MUCH more confident in taking your bike around tight little corners and flicking from side to side quickly. It'll also help you get out of bad habits of grabbing the brakes in situations where you could have swerved or stopped your bike controllably, confidently and safely.

    I can not stress how good the course is for you at the 6 month stage of riding.

    ONTO the next step.

    Once you are off your restrictions, and about to go shopping for a more powerful bike, do the HART Advanced course, or equivalent. DO THIS BEFORE YOU TESTRIDE A NEW BIKE!!!!

    - Once again you’ll be stuck on the 600, but this time you get to take it out on the road and really get to see what its like. From a 250 to the Hornet 600 is an awesome feeling. Seriously, SO MUCH POWER, and the Hornet600 that I rode is the tame 600 on the road :D
    …The Advanced course is essentially a refresher of the intermediate course, but slightly harder. You don’t need to expect a jump in skill level for this. If you have been practicing since the intermediate, this course will help you weed out any last little doubts and clean up any bad habits you may have started. And it’ll reinforce what you’re doing right.
    …Some of the exercises of this course allow you to see what the 600 is all about. We got to gun it down the straight at the Calder Park Thunderdome, which I thought was incredible fun. A 250 just does not have the acceleration like this 600. Also you get to really see what it’s like trying to stop a bike at 150kph+ to a complete stop. You’ll be surprised at how much distance you cover when you try to stop. I reckon that was the best lesson I got out of it during the day.

    After doing those courses you’ll feel even more confident on your 250, and as soon as you go test riding a new bike, the power delivery won’t cloud your judgment as to what bike you want. You’ll feel confident on the bigger bike and you’ll be able to enjoy the test ride without having to worry about snapping the throttle on and worrying about losing the back wheel, because you would have learnt what throttle control is on the courses.

    So yes, I hope a few people heed my advice on this, because I reckon it’s a great way to go through your early biking stages, and could save you from a lot of grief. Had I not done these courses, I probably would have binned an R1 on a test ride the other day when my back wheel went out going around a corner. :oops: :cool:
  19. Hey guys,

    If it's any help, I took my ZX2R ('90 ZXR250A) to the Superbike School Level 1 course, and that immensely transformed my ability to corner and do things at speed.

    Sure, you'll hit your rev limiter going down the straight at Phillip Island. In 6th gear (only), a ZX2R is limited to 16 thousand revs. (try it if you don't believe me). But you'll definitely improve your skills, have fun, etc.

    I'm not sure how useful it would be to take a slower 250 (i.e. Suzuki Across), but a 250CBRR or ZX2R is worth the effort. :)

    Only saying this because I've already done it. Did the HART intermediate course as well prior, but that turned out to just be revision of the P plater test stuff without a test at the end. (all useful practise, but no real new skills)
  20. Well when I do superbike school, I'm taking the ZZR250 and to hang what anyone says. I'll get some nice supersticky rubber and go out and learn a lot and have some fun.