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Can being "bad", make you better?

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by spenze, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. I remember many years ago when I was new to driving and got my "hoon" on. My friends and I would case out a park, roads, dirt roads etc to check what was around then started to have some "fun".

    As a result of this, I managed to get in some serious practice with controlling a car sideways, backwards, hydroplaning and even on two wheels.

    After I had grown out of these antics I managed to find myself on a few occasions where having experience of how to handle skids has managed to save the situation.

    So as long as "hooning" is done in a safe environment, is it really that bad?

    One could argue that the defensive driving courses for skid control, is exactly that.... hooning around in a safe environment.

    In order to be in 100% control of your vehicle, surely you need to experience everything that can occur while you're riding? Once experienced it, then practise it.

  2. With you 100%, but we are in a minority, it seems.

    " ... defensive driving courses for skid control ... " is a misnomer. A defensive driving course is about learning to recognise and anticipate things that are risky. It's not about car control or being a more skilled driver. An advanced driver training course, is about control and familiarity and balance and so forth. Steering skills.

    The gist of a week in a classroom doing a defensive driving course is that if you never go over 8 km/h and stop every time you see another vehicle, you might live to see your next birthday. The focus is on identifying risks.

    The gist of an advanced driving course is to make you a more skilled driver. That may or may not make you safer. The focus is on car control.
  3. Its hardly hooning if its in a safe environment
  4. Is that how it works?
  5. its how i learn to control a bike/car like i do.
  6. Yup. It needs to be in a dangerous manner. You can still be a wanker though...
  7. "Hooning" to me is some act of automotive stupidity performed in front of an audience, to impress people - anything that begins with the thought "Hey guys, watch this!" However, the meaning of the word seems to be changing to mean anything that involves a vehicle which might be fun.
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  8. the word is even changing to include any anti social behaviour, such as people at a soccer game letting off flares are known as 'soccer hoons'
  9. totally agree spenze, something i've been thinking long about myself, learning how to make it happen so you can control it when it does happen.
    but i've found those who know generally don't like teaching (or are good in the field but poor teachers), and those who don't most often lambast those who wish to learn for noble intent
  10. Snap. Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach, and those who aren't even close decry the whole thing as dangerous and irresponsible.

    Anything less effeminate than flower arranging or stamp collecting needs to be held up in the spotlight of public condemnation to control the unsightly lusts of young men and women so they don't think they can just go out and have fun like it grew on trees. We get off on riding bikes, but there are people in this world who get off on regulating and controlling the lives of others, trying to catch anyone and everyone doing the least thing that's against some kind of rule or regulation, and then making a huge moral issue about it.

    In their defence, these people have made some changes for the better in our world, and it's overall a better place because of them, but they can be a monumental pain in the arse.

    I think Superman comics have a lot to answer for. I think there's a stereotype (lots of them, actually) in our society of better, nicer, smarter, sexier people, acting outside and above the law or any kind of supervision and moderation, who make it their mission in life to be vigilantes. What super power would you bring to the party if you didn't have X-ray vision or a glowing green ring? How about mob rule and righteous indignation of the moral majority? How about 60 Minutes and A Current Affair?

    We're not that different, inside. The bloke who thinks he's going to get a round of applause and some whistles from the crowd for turning tyres into smoke and noise outside the cinema, gets dobbed in to the cops by some concerned citizen, who thinks they're going to get a round of applause and whistles from the crowd because they struck a triumphant blow for moral decency. They both get that winning feeling from it.
  11. Simple answer is YES!!!!!!!!

    But anybody can go fast in a straight line.. no skill in that.
  12. Yes. I did the same thing. But I also did, and still do the same thing on my bike.
    Why didn't you, Spenze? ( that's not a dig at you mate. It's a genuine question.

    Of course, there are limits, due to bikes inherent instability compared to a car, in certain things..
  13. I'm with you Nobby. There are certain things which are considered hooning, that certainly can enhance your skills and make you a better rider. But going 200 kmh on a freeway is not one of them imho. There's a time and place for everything, so if you want to just go fast, do it on a track somewhere.
  14. i'm a little confused here.

    you can do things considered hooning and enhance your skills, but going fast requires going to a track?

    general question

    where do we draw the line between accepted street hooning and track only shenanigans?

    i'm sure some of the stuff i do on the street would leave some riders annoyed but since i'm within my own limit and the limit of the bike is that ok?
  15. Grey area. Derran Hynch would say that every time you put your undies on you're a threat to society - let alone when you take them off. My view - if what you're doing poses an elevated risk to other people, that's over the line. If what you're doing appears to pose an elevated risk - that's a grey area, but you should think about it. Appearances do matter, because they provide ammunition for wowsers to wail about the children and the kittens, and like the dripping water wearing down the limestone, that's going constrain what we can all do in the long run.
  16. I'm assuming you mean "why haven't I been hooning on the bike?" So my answer is within that context.

    First off... I have indeed been hooning. But a very very small amount.

    Honestly, I think its a bit of;
    a) I'm (considerably) older than I was when I got my car licence
    b) if I pushed it too much in a car, I was at least protected by a cage
    c) less susceptible to peer pressure now
    d) the people I know that ride.... haven't done/do "hooning" around me
    e) the vehicle is now mine
    f) the insurance is also mine

    When I was hooning in a car, I generally had at least one other person in the car with me. Having company has a very reassuring aspect to it. Apart from someone just to talk to, they're very useful for helping push the vehicle out of ditches, or back onto its wheels :) So in general, if something does go wrong you know there is someone who can help... right away.

    This is a primary reason why I like going on group rides on the bike. Heaven forbid something bad happens, there are others who can/could help, even if all they can do is call emergency services. The fear of flying off the road going around a corner and vanishing without a trace is very real.

    So to combat that, I'd need to be a group. But when in a group, hooning is generally undesired. I'm sure there are groups that go out and hoon but I don't know them.

    As for the "confidence progression". For the reasons stated above, I would say that I have mostly stayed within my comfort zone on the bike. Only recently have I started to try things, to experience them, to gain confidence in them. (I'm not even talking hooning here)

    To help with that, to get some experience, I'm planning is to go along to the California Super Bike School, a race day etc, and also go to a Stay Upright course or two.

    Note: my definition of "hooning" is anything that I think the cops would not like to see you doing.
  17. Spenze I work off the theory that it's better to know it and not use than need it and not have it.

    Once someone has learnt the basics and everything that's inside the box, THEN it's time to go outside the box and see what else is possible.

    It's pretty obvious when watching stunters for instance that they've progressed beyond basic skills and are somewhat masters of riding. That fine machine control and feel gives them an edge when the chips are down.
  18. I love this thread.

    I think hooning is a lifestyle, not something you can just turn on and off. Hooning is anything that is too ****ing awesome to be legal (and even then it can be legal but is so awesome it seems bizarre that it is). If it kills a kitten, it's hooning.

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  19. I have just taught my son to drive. One of the first things we did was practice skids, and how to steer into them. Then we practiced power slides, or 'burnouts' and how to regain control. This was done initially on a 'controlled' gravel road away from the masses. My boy will be driving mostly on country roads, and I want him to know how to correct with two wheels on gravel, and two on bitumen. If he can 'push pull' steer then thats great as well, but unhelpful in his 1976 non-power steering ute.
  20. You can learn a lot about throttle control and weight transfer by driving sideways on slippery surfaces, imo. I know I did. And the importance of smooth steering and braking inputs.

    When I got my first car ('78 Skyline, hahaha), my buddies and I went "rally driving" every Sunday afternoon for a couple of years. It was mostly development sites, where they'd graded out where the roads would be, but there was nothing (or no-one) else there. So we had smooth "roads" to drive on, but it wasn't a problem if we overcooked it or spun off. There wasn't anyone around to see, we just did it because we liked the challenge and it was a shitload of fun.

    I later completed defensive and advanced driving courses, all of which were valuable, but I still treasure that time spent trying to get that fishtail through the long chicane just right.

    tl;dr - finding and exceeding your - and your vehicle's - limits in a safe, controlled environment is a good thing, in a lot of different ways. I don't think too many people would disagree with that, in general.