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Came off again :(

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by David@DHill, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. Two offs in the first month of riding. :cautious: These kevlar jeans are getting a hell of a workout.

    Everybody said to me "be careful when it first starts to rain, it's very slippery" ... and yes, it'd been raining very lightly for a few minutes earlier today when it happened ... but I was just coming to a stop in traffic, probably only 5-10kph, front wheel pointed forward ... when both wheels started going almost sideways. I went down with a thud. I couldn't believe it!

    Nice thing was that two car drivers got out and ran over, and got the bike upright for me. Good samaritans.

    What does an experienced rider do in that situation, where both wheels become unstable? I use the bike for work, so not riding in light rain isn't really an option.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Hi,
    I can't give any advice on the whole sliding thing... I can't 100% remember how I've handled it the couple of times I've slid..

    But stopped in to say glad you're okay and good to see that there are still some nice people around... you're lucky!
    • Like Like x 2
  3. #3 dgmeister, Oct 22, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
    handling a two wheel slide is some pretty intensive shit :eek:
    all you can do is basically try to balance, but you will not be able to steer or brake until you regain traction.-newton's inertia= you will travel in a straight line until you regain traction (reaction force)

    locked wheels require sudden release and then gentle re application of brakes.

    brake application should never be sudden, it should be firm like a handshake. focus on using your front brakes smoothly.

    this sort of sliding means you were going too fast for wet conditions, or applied inputs too abruptly.

    everything in the wet must be very smooth and deliberate

    just like when you were a kid on a bicycle, learning to ride means falling off and getting back on again! try to learn where you can minimise the risks.
    you need some cross training, is there a quiet road where you can practise? can you ride a pushbike to learn to slide around? is there anywhere you can go offroad? you may not think so , but a few trackdays would be the best thing for you to learn and get advice.

    good luck
  4. Sounds like you must have hit a patch of oil or diesel for that to happen. What a rotten thing to happen. All you can do is keep all your control inputs gentle when it's wet and slippery and keep the corner speeds down. Of course watch out for oil, painted makings, steel utility covers and so on.
  5. I'm no expert, but some ideas and techniques that helped me:

    Slow down earlier, smoothly apply the brake. If you start to slide release the brake so the wheels start to rotate again and re-apply smoothly (the earlier you start to slow down the more room you give yourself for correction before you smack the car in front). Never feel pressured that you're holding people behind you up, make room for yourself.

    Practise in the wet and find the braking distance you feel most comfortable with and what you and your bike are capable of. If the front slides you're more likely to drop the bike, but it's quite easy to break the back loose and hold it up.

    Finally, use a good set of tyres and pay attention to the difference between cold and warmed-up tyres, test out the above now then again when you get a new set of top-of-the-range tyres.
  6. I nearly had an off today (in Sydney) where it just started to rain. Despite going very carefully around a round-about, the front wheel slipped away like it was on ice. No brakes at all involved. Got the foot down and made a recovery.

    Needless to say, I rode very carefully around corners from then on in.
  7. ^^ is this an option for you?
  8. Bummer sorry to hear that, what's the damage on the bike, and on your dignity going down at walking stick speed? :p

    I recently had a close call where I was in the middle lane turning right and at the apex decided to merge to left lane, had to stood up the bike and merge and rear wheel skidded and overtook the front. Recovered by relaxing and standing up on the pegs and shift body weight up high, don't think it's something that'll help you in this situation, but many a times just relaxing and the bike will recover itself.
  9. You probably had a front wheel slide, not a two wheel slide. Once the front wheel goes you will usually find yourself laying on the ground very shortly afterwards. This may have given you the impression of a rear wheel slide. At very low speeds, you will not have time to release and reapply the brakes, you will be over before you know it.

    Are you riding a light bike? Light bikes IMHO are prone to front wheel slides at low speed due to dust, oil, diesel or crud on the road. The way to avoid this is to plan your stops and transfer braking off the front brake and onto the rear brake once you have reached a low speed. Also although you may not realise it, you may often be steering other than straight ahead as you come to a stop. Front brake and steering may, if the road surface is not good, exceed the traction limits of your tyre sending you off. This is especially so at low speed - it is easier to fall off at low speed compared to higher speeds (although the consequences are obv worse at higher speeds).
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. bugger. were you in the wheel track or centre of the road? the crap is usually in the centre. both brakes? tyre pressure OK? maybe get better tyres?
  11. I assume you hard brake both front and rear . This kind of thing doesnt happen until both wheels are locked and slide on the road. Two wheel drift.

    ABS bikes have traction control to assist but normally old school bikes and smaller bikes dont have it.
    I dont know ... but for me I tend to use rear brake until I come to stopping point apply front brake. I never apply them in the same time.

    Just my guess, might be wrong.
  12. Meh I had all my crashes in the first couple of years on shitty little learner bikes. They're dangerous I tells ya.

    Buy a bigger HEAVIER bike as soon as humanly possible. They do EVERYTHING better - brake, accelerate, corner, road holding. Maybe not so good for nipping through those tiny gaps in the traffic though. Heh

    But anyway get off that lawn mower and buy the biggest fastest heaviest bike you can possibly manage, you'll be a helluva lot safer on it :)
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Just out of interest how did you come off the frist time ?
  14. other issue is if you still using OEM tires on a CFmoto you need to replace them or take extra care.. im sorry but they put shit tires on them im sure.. tires will make a huge difference..
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Once you're going slowly use back and compression to slow down only. Front brake is the most efficient for slowing down but it uses up a lot more of your stability. Try not to touch it once you're under 20 unless you have an emergency. It's ok to use it at higher speed as your momentum gives you more stability.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. This ^ I have a jap scoot i commute to work on and there is a corner near my home I can take at 80 no problems wet or dry on my 1200, but on the scoot with the wooden Kenda's that came on it OEM, i get 2 wheel drift taking the corner at 60 sometimes the front sometimes the back some times both.

    replaced tyres problem solved.

    my only other suggestion would be to look at your braking, doing all your braking in the last 10m is stupid, If i see the light ahead is red I'm off the throttle and when i am coming to a stop using maybe 10% braking potential.

    I'd say 99% of the population brake hard, late. which is even funnier when you see them lined up at a woolies servo on a tuesday for some cheap petrol.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Thanks to all the responses from this noob also. Have lost the front in the wet twice at very low speed. On a light bike (126 kg) with bicycle grade OEM tyres. On a steep learning curve.

    Keeping a bloody good gap in front in the wet I find needs a lot of concentration for me, get hyper alert for all sorts of defensive riding in the wet and tend to close up on the car in front. Drop back again, just live with people cutting in to the very attractive gap. Sigh, slow, drop back some more.

    Have been trying to remember to use the rear brake more at all red lights, will really work on it now.

    Had wondered about a heavier bike for stopping and in the wind. Mmm Monster 696.
  18. Never ride too close because you want to stop people merging lanes in front of you. Either a) they have a legitimate reason to be changing lanes (i.e. they are turning up ahead or b) they are driving aggressively to progress through traffic in which case you wont stop them merging in on you unless you are really close, in which case the risk you are taking to stop the occasional loss of a couple seconds is too great.
  19. Ahh would never do that on purpose, partly 'cause one fall was due to me inadvertently getting too close in the wet when car in front had their own e-stop moment. I always try to hang well back. Defensive scan for things to look for ahead, to the side, behind & dang, have closed up again. Even 17hp 150's seem to like to go fast.