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Cager attitudes and advertising

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by bonox, Mar 15, 2006.

  1. With a crop of new tv ads for the ford territorial popping up, they are pushing what appears to me to be a new angle:

    "don't buy a truck (and they use this word) like a cruiser or patrol, buy one of our things instead"

    Does anyone care about this? What do you think about cagers being led up the garden path where they get told that the heavy, high mass centre vehicle they've just bought is no different to a small car (even on all terrain tyres)? Think manufacturers should rethink putting automatic gearboxes and power clutches/steering on these brutes by legislation/taxation persuasion?

    Should they be encouraged to upgrade as the newer vehicles probably do behave more like a car than the typical 4wd?

  2. Is making the machine more expensive the answer.
    I am not including crossovers in this, but some people actually go bush with there 4WD's they have functional use of them as actual off road vehicles.

    As much as I don't personally understand it, some 4WDers actually prefer Automatics, For hill starts and some slow work it is in fact easier to control. (I personally prefer to do the work myself)

    So making them all manual wouldn't necessarily be the answer.

    Getting rid of the Power steering and other control assists... If you have ever driven off road seriously you would understand how fatiguing it can be, if you are not careful you can break a thumb when a rock gives the steering wheel a sudden twist. And sometimes you need very fast and precise clutch work (especially on hills)

    So all the features that make a 4WD a soccer mum road hazard are features that make it a functional 4WD.
  3. I can't stand the new Nissan 4WD ad. The one that goes on about "for all the people who never thought they'd buy a 4WD, now here's one that's just for driving in the city with..."

  4. I want to see motorbike ads, you never see ads adverting the latest ZX or Ducati, and what not.
  5. fair enough falcon, however if you made it just a little bit harder drive, you might get rid of a much larger number of drivers into more suitable vehicles.

    As for the power thing, i've had no problems piloting a 2a landrover or mark2 rangy into some pretty rough places;

    that said, if you move things like powered clutches etc to the aftermarket catalogue instead of the normal standard or tick the box options, you'd possibly take care of the people who really needed the bits as well as making life harder for the soccer mums.
  6. f#ck all market, and that's not the point of this thread.
  7. pete, know what you're saying on this one, but like the crv, rav4 etc they all seem to be much lighter vehicles and come with road tyres from the factory, rather than being 2 tonnes and jack of all trades rubber.

    The message that drivers appear to be given though is that because your new 'truck' doesn't feel like one, it isn't one.
  8. +1

    What a crap excuse to market 4WDs to city folk.
  9. Because most city living "keep up with the jones" suckers / sorry people deep down want a 4WD as a status symbol but don't really deep down want to drive a pig. So they push the "Handles like a car, but! it's a 4WD!!!" type vehicles.

    Personally I see these vehicles as unessential and wasted about 90% of the time. Taking the kids to school / weekend sports does not require a 2 Tonne 4WD vehicle. I live in a area full of miners and the majority of vehicles a large 4WD wagons. Why? Cause they can afford them. No real need. Just like the Harleys they Squid around on. Cause they can.

    Sorry about the rant its just that I see so many of these vehicles around for no real purpose and I've seen first hand how these things stand up in accidents. It's scary.

    The best 4WD for the average family that can afford a landcruiser? A new Audi or BMW. Tons safer and much cooler too (in my opinion)
  10. And why would they reduce their market size?

    I like the idea of a "large or heavy vehicle tax" that if you live in the bush, you can claim back at tax time. or something like that.
  11. Thing that annoys me with the Territory is that a large number of those sold are the 2WD version - which means the owners have no intention of taking the thing off-road. So why not just by a damn Falcon. Clearly these things are being sold on image and what's worrying is that it may create a false sense of security in their owners - making them less observant of what's around them.
    Edit: And if the Government seriously wanted to reduce the number of 4wds on the road they'd stop subsidising them. A 4wd has a much lower sales tax than any other vehicle, without it some would be a good $10~15,000 dearer to buy. 4wds also don't have to meet the same crash test or emissions requirements as a normal car (which is why the manufacturers love them).
  12. A log book system for all 4WD* owners that come tax time they lodge stating that they have done X amount of offroad k's, and if it's over the threshold they get their "4WD Wanker City Driver" tax refunded???

    *Obviously not your Rav4's, CRV's etc.
  13. I like that too.

    I'd imagine they could work it on the registration. I'm not sure how it's like in other states, but SA only has two "zones." Country registration of course is much cheaper, but at the moment 4WDs are still classed as "cars" and fall into the same registration category.

    They're currently based on cylinders:
  14. there needs no reason for it.

    People want a 4wd/suv whatever you call em, for whatever reason, and so manufacturers make them. and cos they make them they are gonna say/do whatever neccessary to sell as many as possible!

    Im sure almost no-one drives a form of transport that is the absolute bare minimum that is needed to transport themselves from a to b....

    i understand that its uneccessary in most cases, but so are alot of other things in life to!

    My dad drives a landcruiser, amongst a few of the reasons is: he used to go on the odd off track camping trip, he's in the construction/trade industry and it helps when on site, he can store all his tools in the back, we are a family of 6 so we need the extra seats when with friends, its comfortable and quiet, can tow our trailer easily, he likes the specs/quality and liked the previous landcruiser we had so he chose to stick with it...

    does he deserve to get crucified because he chooses to drive a 4wd?

    Oh and he's not rich, so its hardly a status symbol amongst friends.

    maybe im missing the point? If so i apologize :grin:
  15. my dad got a new ford territory ghia last night, nice car (and i do like the reversing camera) though i don't know if he needs a 4WD, he does drive around a landfill for work sometimes but he had coped with a sedan in the past :roll:

    the thing that frustrates me about 4WDs is that when there are two beside one another in traffic there is often no room left to split :( ..but i squeeze through anyway :)
  16. WHAT!!!!
    Please tell me you are kidding....

    That sounds soooo wrong it's not funny :|
    Is this a state thing or a federal thing?
  17. 4WDs are fine... They're very practical in the right setting.

    But the attitude of marketing them for city use (which is Bonox's original thread) can be as dangerous as marketing knives to children.

    The Television standards commission (or whatever they're called) have successfully stopped car manufacturers marketing "speed" in there advertisements. There's really not much difference in marketing 4WDs for city-only use.

    *edit: fixed "quote"
  18. you are missing the point emilmh - this isn't about what people drive or their choice to choose what they want to drive, merely that these 'heavy vehicles' with fairly poor dynamics are pushed heavily as 'just a car', which has a number of pitfalls, not least of which are mass, height and the type of tyres they come with.

    For those who comment on 'why would they [the manf's] reduce their market', these people will still buy something - there are no manufacturers of mainstream 4wds who don't offer a comparable car to go with it:

    cruiser, avalon
    patrol, maxima
    territory, falcon
    adventra, dunnydoor.

    All of which get better crash protection for occupants, better protection for the pedestrian or vehicle you hit, better fuel economy, better handling....
  19. I think jd might be confused. In the USA, 4WD's are classed as 'trucks' and therefore don't have to meet the same emission and crash standards as 'cars', but I'm pretty sure that 4WD's are classed as 'cars' here.

    Don't know about the subsidy though. If it's true it's a bloody outrage. Imagine if the gov't subsidised bike to the tune of $10,000-$15,000? They'd be paying us to take them out of the shop...
  20. I thought this was an "American" thing. It doesn't sound right here, though I could be wrong... :roll: