Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Burqa-clad bank robbers stage hold-up

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by quietman, Feb 7, 2010.

  1. http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/burqaclad-bank-robbers-stage-holdup-20100207-nk6e.html

    One of our friends has a daughter who recently got her bike L's and works as a bank teller and the topic of customers covering their faces was one of the topics of discussion at a recent barby.

    She was recently moved to a branch in a suburb with a high level of muslim population and said how scared she and her workmates gets when having to serve full burqa wearing customers. While noting the irony that motorcyclists are banned from wearing helmets in her bank even though at least with them she can see the eyes (assuming clear visor).

    She was surprised when I said I agreed with the ban on full face helmets in banks etc (she rides a bike and agrees with the ban too).

    I know this bank robbery in France will be a topic of conversation tomorrow morning at her bank and unfortunately lead to further anxiety to teller staff.

    How long I wonder before the double standard is lifted? :-s

     
     Top
  2. This is only news because of what the robbers were wearing; there's no suggestion they WERE Moslems, any more than there should be a search of Disneyland if someone robs a bank wearing a Mickey Mouse mask.....
     
     Top
  3. True!!... and as the robbery took place in Paris, it's a good way to gain support the current plans in France:

    France is seeking to restrict use of the head-to-toe Islamic veil on the grounds it is incompatible with French values, after a parliament report called for a ban in schools, hospitals, government offices and public transport

    I guess "restrict use" relates to robbers!!...:D
     
     Top
  4. "France is seeking to restrict use of the head-to-toe Islamic veil on the grounds it is incompatible with French values, after a parliament report called for a ban in schools, hospitals, government offices and public transport"
    I wonder if the hold up was performed by french police?
     
     Top
  5. I think it should be perfectly allowable for a private company to discriminate against any religious headwear or mask, in the same way they discriminate against motorcycle helmets for the purpose of security.

    Aside from my view that the Hijab is (although an ingrained part of some people's culture) a tool for the oppression and marginalisation of women by an ignorant and sexually repressed culture that breeds violence from frustration...


    Should your kid's Sikh schoolmate be allowed to wear their religious dagger to class?
     
     Top
  6. Sort of negates the whole point of it doesn't it... :)
     
     Top
  7. Might even the odds on the train trip home.
     
     Top
  8. ..it didn't say they were smart!!.... :LOL:
     
     Top
  9. You don't say :rolleyes:

    That's right, there was no suggestion from anybody that they were "Moslems"(sic) ... you are the only one making the connection.

    The robbers were probably Atheists as everybody knows they have no morals.

    The point my friends daughter who works at a bank was making was how she considers it a double standard that by law they must serve customers with only their pupils showing yet motorcyclists with helmets must remove them before entering. (For the record I agree they should too.)
     
     Top
  10. Care to explain? Islamically, the purpose of the hijab is to allow women and men (who also have to observe hijab; i.e. modesty in their clothing and behaviour) to be judged for more than merely their outward appearance, but their intellect and contribution to society. Its unjust and wrong to blame any violence committed by 'muslims' (albeit contrary to the religion's stance) on the hijab, rather than the relevant social or psychological factors that made them violent.

    There are no excuses about the fact that Islam doesn't promote a hyper-sexualised society; on the contrary it promotes sex as a private affair. That doesn't mean that sexuality is repressed, in fact it is considered a great asset to be good in bed as you're then better able to satisfy your wife/husband's needs. There is even literature in regards to sex and sexuality; its just not thrown around gratuitously at everyone (including kids) as an advertising, fashion or social accessory.

    Me being the sexy stud that I am shouldn't entitle me to promotions at work (etc) any more than others who've worked just as hard. Unfortunately the fact of the matter is that it is something that is taken into account (purposefully or not) in today's society. The purpose of hijab is to reduce that element and give everyone a more equal footing.

    Another thing to note is the fact that the Burka (which includes the face veil) is not an obligatory part of the 'hijab' proceess. The head scarf is the obligation, and the face veil is a further act of devotion towards the concept. If security was a genuine issue here, there could easily be arrangements to cater for women who choose to wear the face veil which would cost nothing to implement. Its a storm in a tea cup, used by politicians (and media) to get the vote of (and sell news to) a scared population and pretend they're being proactive.

    I really should revive the old thread on religion I had before my hiatus.
     
     Top
  11. Yes, these garments function as a sexual equaliser in competition for mates. Or, lack of competition as it were. It takes the biological advantage away from young and genetically gifted women, and allows less attractive and older women to compete more easily. Why am I reminded of that "2 wolves and 1 sheep" quote?
     
     Top

  12. oh yeah and pre-teens dressing up and parading around like hookers or brittany spears -( meh one and the same) in our over sexualised society is a good thing is it ?


    yeah sister you are liberated because you can go out and flash your cottage cheese thunder thighs while wearing skimpy shorts while I puke up my lunch
     
     Top
  13. Competition for mates isn't its primary function. Prospective wives and husbands are allowed to talk to, look at and get to know each other in a relaxed social setting. They are without obligation and free to reject each other on the basis of looks if they so please (or any other reason).

    The 'less attractive and older women' of the world don't have a monopoly on the Islamic faith (it would be ludicrous to suggest that they ever did) to be able to use the hijab to systematically persecute the 'young and genetically gifted' women. However, I do agree that the hijab does act as an encouragement to judging people for more than their appearance, especially when looking for a prospective spouse. Other characteristics, like intellect, personality and love should be taken into account and a proper analysis would imo keep the divorce rates down as well.
     
     Top
  14. I can see how the wearing of the burka can be theologically sound and positive.

    But really; it is a tradition imposed upon many women by a culture that punishes the victims of r@pe instead of the offender, absolves young men of responsibility for their own sexual urges, and has created the odd individual prepared to blow themselves up on the promise of some inexperienced tail in the afterlife.

    Motolegion, the sexualisation of children is a different debate.
    This debate is about the fact that the people to whom a burka is really really important, are the same people who will call your wife a white whore because she's showing too much ankle.
     
     Top
  15. Not mine - I am a bachelor and plan to stay that way

    Your values are never going to be their ( middle east Islam extremist ) values Bonk

    They need to sort it out themselves

    If you recall the english victorian era was fully covered neck to knee all but the face and then even it was a thin veil as well
     
     Top
  16. Hypothetically, of course.


    Ahhh yes, the good old days. Were we letting women go to school and vote, then?
     
     Top
  17. It is merely your opinion that it is a tradition "imposed" upon women. I don't believe that is the general scenario, or you'd have many Muslim women crying foul. The fact of the matter is that it is widely accepted by most Muslim women and those who don't like it, don't wear it.

    The punishment of r*pe victims is not a common occurrence, it was an isolated incident in a country that was most probably motivated by political and social factors rather than Islamic culture or tradition. Islamically r*pe victims are treated with the utmost of care and supposed to be given all the emotional and psychological help possible. The r*pists on the other hand are faced with the death sentence after an impartial trial. I don't see how the possibility of death is a motivating or absolving factor in committing r*pe.

    As for the creation of the odd individual who blows themselves up for tail; Don't be silly, I highly doubt that their main motivating factor in blowing themselves up is the virgins, as opposed to whatever sense of injustice they're trying to fight against (rightly or wrongly - that’s a different debate).

    Islamically suicide is totally prohibited, including suicide bombings. On the other hand, fighting for a just cause is not prohibited. Just like we award our soldiers with medals and other posthumous awards, the Islamic soldiers who fight and die for a just cause get the promise of heaven (where theoretically they get whatever they want, including virgins if one is so inclined).
     
     Top
  18. Sorry for being a bit cynical. I've ingested to much of the sheik and his self appointed spokesman. Hopefully you can correct that for me.

    The punishment of r*pe victims is not a common occurrence, it was an isolated incident in a country that was most probably motivated by political and social factors rather than Islamic culture or tradition.
    It was more than one. It gets in the news occasionally.

    Islamically r*pe victims are treated with the utmost of care and supposed to be given all the emotional and psychological help possible.
    Unless they are being stoned for seducing a man.
    "Meat left out for the cat" comes to mind. What happens to meat after it has been eaten?

    The r*pists on the other hand are faced with the death sentence after an impartial trial. I don't see how the possibility of death is a motivating or absolving factor in committing r*pe.
    I'm remembering back to the Skaff case where the mother made her way into the spotlight saying that her boys should be tried under muslim law and courts. This brought into focus how one sided and polarised towards males the muslim court system seemed to be. Did she really feel that 55 years was not enough, they should be dead instead?
     
     Top
  19. Come on mate, these stories seem to come out of Saudi Arabia and sometimes Iran every other week.
     
     Top
  20. Hearing of a few publicised cases in a few muslim majority countries, does not prove that it is an epidemic in the muslim world. Nor, especially, does it mean that it is a view promoted by the religion of Islam or the Muslim population in general. It just says that there were a few reported incidents where the government of the country (which shouldn't be used to judge Islam/Muslims) farked up.

    I've heard of at least two cases of road rage in Australia where the male driver/rider pulled out a shotgun...therefore most of us Aussie males carry shotguns and commit road rage. No.

    Again, retarded mob mentality, or isolated incidents should not be used to judge a people. How up in arms do we get when the Cronulla riots are brought up to argue that all aussies are racist. There is no scripture or tenant in the Islamic faith that even remotely implies that a r*pe victim should be stoned. Quite the contrary, basic islamic principles dictate that r*pe victims, like all victims of crime must be taken care of and given the support they require (including legal). It's easy to embrace fanciful ideas about people we aren't fully aware of...unfortunately they're not always accurate. The only information we get are the odd news articles, and they're not there to bridge gaps, but sell papers.

    If you do a search on the forum, the meat/cat issue has been delt with before. Suffice it to say that no amount of analogies can absolve a r*pist of responsibility for his act, ever.

    How can you be so willing to take as (Islamic) gospel, the ramblings of a mother who's about to see her two sons being sent to jail for 55 years? In fact, I recall a few prominent Islamic figures expressing their total disgust towards such heinous criminal acts, and the fact that such a conviction by an Islamic court would have resulted in the death penalty.

    Funny what we choose to remember and what we forget.

    Unfortunately, I can't deny that there are a bad apples in the Muslim world - as in any other community. This occurs when dangerously underqualified simpletons (politicians) get power and become judge, jury and executioner. You see and hear examples of this, and unfortunately the media paints all muslims with the same brush. Naturally it's easier to sell advertising space like that, rather than engaging in a discourse about the proper Islamic position on such acts.

    Luckily though, we have at our disposal limitless resources in this day and age, so none of us should plead ignorance about such matters because we are using these stories to judge 25% of the world's population in a very harsh way.
     
     Top