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Braking technique on the twisties..

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' at netrider.net.au started by crinkelcut_chip, Feb 26, 2009.

  1. Hello everyone.. thought I'd seek the advice of the all... well experienced.

    So I live just down the road from Arthur's seat.. and I've only just discovered it.. been riding for about 6 months now.

    So this is the first time I've really encountered these kinds of serious corners.. and in some places a fairly steep incline/decline...

    So when I did it for the first time.. well I did it when the road was quiet.. I ran the first corner wide... then I got the hang of it... and smiled like a freak the whole way.. got to the top and was like yer.. who cares about the view.. turned around and went straight down.. did it again... and again.. and again.




    I'm having no troubles up hill... out did another guy on the same bike as me.. and I even managed to keep up with some of the bigger bikes that were around on the tighter sections

    Downhill is another story....
    I'm finding myself just using a little rear brake on the real tight (nearly 180 degree) turns on a fairly steep decline..
    it feels like it helps me swing it around and tighten it up at the end more...

    but this is wrong isn't it ?

    I guess what I want to know.. what is considered normal braking technique downhill with tight corners ?

    Also.. I'm looking forward to my first trip up through the spurs... how do the roads compare for those who know both ? how much harder/easier are the spurs ?


    edited.. spelling.. oops
     
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  2. What are you trying to "break" exactly?
     
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  3. haha.. yer realised about a moment after I posted... I'll blame the lack of concentration on being at home sick... :cool:
     
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  4. On downhill, roll off the throttle, brake well before the corner and then slight throttle through without trying to pick up speed as your downward momentum will see you through.
    Riding the rear helps to tighten up but as you are a beginner I would recommend you do not follow this technique, it works for some and is dependant on the type of bike.
    Ride conservatively when going downhill.
    I'm sure you will get more and better responses than mine but make sure its from people with some riding experience not other learners.
     
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  5. :WStupid:
    rear brake on the spurs is a recipe for coming off.
     
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  6. Do not become over confident on a road you now know.
    Back it all off a bit on an unfamiliar road or we could be reading a rider down thread. Do your braking before the bend.
    The Black spur at "legal speeds" can be a bit of a yawn some people like Reefton better.
     
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  7. Riding twisties downhill has more to do with gear selection than braking technique. Try selecting a lower gear so the engine braking generated can assist in speed control. I tend to ride down (and up) the A/Seat road in 2nd. The engine braking assists speed control entering the turn after I release the brake, thus allowing me to comfortably roll on some maintainence throttle from the moment I tip in to the turn without feeling like the bike will get away from me. :)
     
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  8. You can use a lower gear so that there's more engine braking. That way when you turn you can gently accelerate.
     
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  9. Mate...did you even do a search for "CORNERING"?...Your questions have been answered a hundred times over, and you will find out alot more that you need to know for good cornering technique...

    Trying to learn to control your bike in twisites at Arthurs Seat, is'nt giving yourself much of a chance...IMHO you should be looking for something a little easier. The Spurs that you speak of are shut at the moment due to the fires, and will be chokkers with the police for a while once it opens, but they would be a better choice for you. Having said that, since Aurthurs Seat is close to you,, making use of it is worthwhile, but I would warn you to be cautious...some of the corners are more or less "survival corners", that don't allow too much time to practice any technique.

    Riding downhill is the same as riding up hill. Uphill IS easier as you've descovered, but in a nutshell the techniques are the same - the only difference is that you brake alot earlier to get your speed down...crack the throttle open as you always would, except in extreme cases, like some of the too sharp bends on that road, where using a little brake through the corner might be advantageous to help keep the speed under control - you do what you have to do in those cases.

    Do yourself a favor and go search for cornering threads - there's is more info out there than you'll know what to do with, but it's worth reading.

    John.
     
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  10. I remember having a chat to a stayupright instructor about this and he actually recommended trailing the rear brake when going downhill if the bike was feeling unsettled. The reason he gave was that applying rear brake pulls the bike down from the rear tyre so it's adjusts the suspension off the front a bit (which is heavily loaded going down steep hills) and it levels out the bike.

    I've got a mate you uses a little rear brake going down hill and he reckons it's great. Personally I'm not that good at it so I just go slower with no rear brake. So I guess I'm saying from what I've heard there is merit to using rear brake through downhill corners but not to slow yourself down, only to help the suspension.
     
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  11. Would I be wrong in saying that most new riders would have the the problem of leaning all their upper weight on the bars as well, further compressing the front which is already under pressure... :roll:

    Grip the tank with your knees and increase your core body strength in addition to all the above matey........
     
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  12. back again.. so I went out and gave it another go..

    I few things I want to mention, I was not using the rear brake to slow down.. merely as control.. I can take the corners without..

    Yes John I have read many many threads on braking.. but don't recall reading any specifically relating to downhill tight corner braking... I was wondering if there are any big differences.. thanks for clearing that up..

    lol.. don't think I've ever read such a contradicting post !


    So when I went out.. I focused on braking even earlier.. and I also focused on gear choice... I think I may have been in to high of a gear for some of the corners... that helped the feeling of being in control a great deal.

    I've stopped using the rear brake.. Seems the consensus is that its more likely to get me in trouble than out of it... so I'll stop it until maybe I'm a little more experienced..


    Well still having lots of fun on the road, not taking anything to hard... I realise I'm still a beginner.

    but I did tick over 10 000k's today !

    :)

    thanks for all your input... is always interesting to see what everything thinks

    cheers

    Alex
     
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  13. Good to see that you've had a good search, Alex... the info that is out there...(not just the stuff you specifically asked about), is all worth investing the time in, even though it takes a little while to absorb it all. :)

    My post was contradicting?...can you explain?


    Yes...Seany had a very good point...just to elaborate a little more on it...too high a gear and the bike will want to run away from you down hill, making it harder to corner and requiring some braking to hold the speed...too low a gear and you might find that while feathering the throttle it's a little bit more difficult due to throttle snatch...but really...it's just a matter of getting used to both and become experienced with the finer points of throttle control...with 10k on board, you should be getting there nicely..

    The whole braking while cornering question is something most people get nervous about answeing, because if it's used incorrectly it will cause a rider to crash...Front brake wants to bike to stand up and run wide, and while rear brake will assist in keeping the bike down through a corner and even tighten the line up a bit, in inexperienced hands it can also lead to crashing if it's overused...Perhaps not so much in your case as you seem to have a fair understanding of things, but newish riders who also read the threads, start trying to do it, without the control or bike craft to back it up.

    Technically speaking, one does not want to brake through a corner...you get it over with before your turn in point...however...that's sometimes not possible and the brakes have to be used (maybe the rider went in too fast or the corner tightened up etc)...but the important thing to remember is that you use the brakes as necessary...not as part of your regular cornering technique.

    Now move into the future...your techniques are solid, you have experience and good bike control, roadcraft etc etc, and are develping your well established and solid cornering skills...around about now, is when I believe you should start introducing the brakes into becoming a new option into your cornering technique....Then for example you can experiment with the front brake during corners - how much grip is there, where are the limits...how effective are the brakes, how much counterforce should I use to counter the effects of the bike wanting to stand up or run wide etc etc...
    You can also intro the rear brakes and develope your skills with those...
    The important thing is, that while introducing the more advanced techniques of braking while cornering or using the brakes to assist cornering, you have a solid amount of experience and exposure to cornering that you can fall back on, if you get it wrong while your learning such things...

    Once things settle down on the Spurs and they are open again, I'm happy to head out on a ride with you - maybe go over some points through the day on cornering - just gime a yell, Alex. :)

    John.
     
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  14. It seems

    that everyone has different ways to brake in the twisties. Same as racing I guess. Everyone has different lines, braking, throttle control etc.

    I guess you do it the way that is most comfortable to you, but within the boundaries of the "textbook" technique.

    AmIRight? :p

    For me.. I like to trail with my front. Rarely touch the rears, unless I really need to pull the bike from running way wide I guess.
     
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  15. back again,

    John-
    Yer thinking about it when I did read the (what seemed like) million threads on braking.. and all sorts of articles guides etc etc.. I was only just starting out and probably only took in what I needed to get started.. I've started going back over some of the ones I've bookmarked.

    Ok maybe your post wasn't contradicting.. but more indecisive,

    then

    but you explained yourself so its fine.. had me scratching my head for a sec though...

    Your last post was fantastic, really cleared up a few things I wasn't quite sure about.. made everything make a lot more sense.

    That'd be fantastic you'll be hearing from me !
    I think at this stage, thats probably a really good idea, get someone that knows to look at what I'm doing and help me correct any mistakes.


    Trueliner
    I agree I think there has to be a margin for difference between each individual.. I'm still working out just how big that margin is though


    cheers everyone !
    Alex
     
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  16. Let's see if i can answer your question...:)

    There is a generally accepted technique that is considered solid, dependable, and technically correct.
    A rider with a good technique and skill level can get on ANY regular bike and apply those same cornering skills and techniques, in the same way...all he has to do is make allowances for the power/suspension package.

    Brakes are a tool, that a rider deploys (or not) as required...they should not really become a part of your "standard" technique, but rather would be used in certain ways to ENHANCE your cornering.

    That's why the use of braking during cornering is often not preached to newer riders - they have'nt yet got their technique sorted out - adding brakes to the list of things to learn is unecessary and only serves to complicate matters IMHO.

    Having said all that...there is no reason why a rider should'nt at least experience the effect of what ones brakes will do to them while cornering, since it may come up in their general riding...but that is more along the lines of defensive riding, which I like to make a distinction from advancing ones cornering skills and ability by introducing and practicing the finer art of using ones brakes.

    If it's your style to use a bit of front brake while cornering, you should ask yourself "why you do that"...are you deploying an additional tool as an advanced part of your technique, or is it habit...if it's habit and there is no clear reason for why you are doing it, then I would evaluate your technique more closely...

    Hope this helps..?

    John.
     
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  17. Yep. I think I started doing it so I could brake a bit later in corner. I think its a pretty bad habit on the open road, considering if the front locks on gravel you're pretty much gone.

    On the track however, I found it fairly beneficial... being on a 250 I needed to brake a bit later to maintain a bit more corner speed. :? lol
     
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  18. Fair enough. :) Trailing the brake to enhance your cornering (in your case braking later) is something that you are doing purposefully - for a reason...Careful not to let it become your "standard" for cornering though, matey. :)...keep it as a tool to be used when you want it, rather than need it. (Thtat's something any of us can fall for) :)

    As it happens...I tend to trail the front brake a bit...I found out I was doing it for the wrong reasons though...I was charging into corners way to hot, and having to stay on the brakes for longer)

    After a few chats with Flux about it, he gave me a few thoughts and that's when I realized I was all wrong...
    It took me a summer to get out of the natural tendency to rush into corners and to set up earlier then ease into them at speed and concetrate more on body position, suspension throttle control, and line. Then add a little brake for minor adjustment of speed or stability.

    I have to watch myself all the time though, as I can revert back to my old ways if I get the wind up me. :)

    John.
     
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