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braking sequence

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by ibanezboy21, Sep 14, 2008.

  1. ok very noob question here, how do you break/slow down smoothly?
    4/10 times i will brake at a stop sign and the bike will either lean to the right/left immediately after i stop which scares the s$#t out of me

    1-2 gears is alrite but coming down from 4-5 gets a bit scary, also is this the correct way to brake/slow down

    starting off at 5th gear
    use rear/front brakes softly
    hold clutch/shift down (4th)
    shift down (3th)
    shift down (2th)
    all while holding down the brakes/clutch?

    this method i am using both my hands/right foot so when it starts leaning to the left/right after the stop i have like a millisecond to decide which foot to come down.

    so im guessing im doing it completely wrong?
  2. I do the following
    Starting in 5th
    brake lightly front/rear brakes
    clutch in
    shift down to 4th
    clutch out
    clutch in
    shift down to 3rd
    clutch out
    etc all way to 1st.....
    then clutch in, brakes on, throw left leg out and bike usually leans to left....
    unless im braking hard then i might go 4th,3rd,2nd etc with clutch in but theres more chance of back wheel locking up that way...

    thats just my $0.02 of what i do :)
  3. oh so your squeezing the clutch in/out during each gear? wont this make the bike 'hop' due to the high reves/lower gears
  4. They teach you at the learner schools to hold the clutch in and progressively change down gears, and so when you go to take off again you will be in 1st gear.

    The reason for releasing the clutch when changing down gears is to help stop the rear wheel from locking under heavy braking, however saying that if you let the clutch out too fast and/or with too many revs it will lock-up anyway (compression lock).

    So decide for yourself which you use, but if you are to let the clutch out, make sure that it will be well away from the redline and you don't just let it go, so that you don't lock the back wheel - be especially careful in the wet. Locks VERY easily in the wet!

    Thats my 2c
  5. If you just hold the clutch in without releasing it each gear then you are effectively changing straight from 5th to 1st. By letting the clutch out at each gear you are getting some compression braking from the engine to help slow you down. Without this you are only relying on the light touch you have on the brakes to slow you from a fifth gear speed to a reasonable 1st gear speed. I'm very new to bikes, but I have been driving manual cars for 25 years, same principles apply. Just need to be smooth with the clutch and get the speed/revs right.
  6. lol zomg


    done to death .... sooo amnnnnyyy times :LOL: :p
  7. lol zomg


    done to death .... sooo amnnnnyyy times :LOL: :p
  8. If it's normal braking I do the following.

    Clutch in, select 4th, blip the throttle as the clutch comes out
    repeat for 3rd gear,
    light rear brake, repeat for second gear,
    front and rear brake
    just before stopping, clutch in, select 1st
    just before the bike stops, lean a little to the left, left foot down as the bike comes to a halt.

    I normally don't touch the brakes till I'm going for 2nd, unless I run it in a bit hot (and thats poor preparation). Let the engine slow you down, and it sounds really cool too :grin:

    If there is traffic a little close behind I'll usually touch the rear brake to activate it so the cager knows I'm actually slowing when coming down from top gear.
  9. Yeah I think letting the clutch in and out is a good habit to get into because like stated before, you arent essentially changing from 5th to 1st, and also you utilise engine braking, which puts less strain on your brakes.
  10. Down shift one gear at a time but blip the throttle between each shift (use the search function on blipping). At the same time gradually apply the brakes (80% of your braking comes from the front brake). Shift into 1st just before you come to a stop and lean your weight a little to the left as you come to a stop, this will make the bike fall to the left so you can keep the rear brake engaged. This is so you can hill start easier. The technically correct way I was taught to brake was to gently apply rear brake first, then squeeze the front brake gently (to transfer weight to the front wheel) then progressively apply more front brake as required.
  11. Yeah pretty much as campag said.... i try usually dont break til about 3rd or 2nd..... unless someones behind and need to see brake lights.

    I never used to blip throttle but have been doing it for last few days.... dont think you really have to though unless your coming in hard to a stop and at high revs.....??

    I usually dont let clutch out unless i'm under around 5-6k ;) otherwise without throttle blip back wheel will lockup.

    THe problem i see with clutch in, down, down, down, down clutch out etc is that if for some reason something happens and you let clutch out and your rolling along with clutch in 1st at 50-60kms or something (exagerated for effect) then you're going to lock up your rear wheel big time.........

    Also i find that i think as i come to a stop my bars are pushed to the left (like countersteering to the left - push on right bar, pull on left.) slightly and this helps lean the bike to my left leg which i take off pegs first. I dont do this purposely, or turn excessively, just something that i assume i do subconsciously and have noticed.
  12. It is a good habit to get into because on the big bikes it is necessary if you don't want to lock the rear and when you get more experience then clutchless shifts are a breeze (this is not for the new riders). "Coming in hard to a stop" you should just keep the clutch in and concentrate on stopping safely, when you get used to this then kick down the gears as your speed drops off (so you can take off at any time if you need to). This is only my opinion and should be taken as general advice only, there are many threads on correct braking procedure. Search is your friend.
  13. Additionally, clutching in, selecting gear and clutching out as you slow down keeps the engaged bike in a suitable gear if you have to suddenly wind the power on for any reason.

    Do some really slow speed practise in a carpark to work on your balance. Crawl along at less than 5kph using the rear only to stabilise the bike, stop by using the rear brake, hold for a second and take off again all without putting a foot on the ground. This is really good practise for slow crawling traffic and does wonders for your bike balance.
  14. sht guys thanks for the replies and yes i just read about 20 pages on blipping, gonna try it this weekend :cool:
  15. As far as I am concerned slowing down occurs in three different ways.
    1) Casual putting around well planned slowing
    2) Going hard, preparing for the tip in
    3) Emergency breaking
    For scenario one I use my back break mainly, just a little pressure and then blip the throttle as I gear down each gear when I get to the right speed, if you are doing this really casually and have practiced it, you can do clutchless shifts without any lurching (If you want to take up the clutchless shifting debate search for one of the many threads on the topic don’t hijack this one)

    Scenario two is where things are most technical/fiddly this is where you are trying to match your revs while under heavy breaking. So how do you do it? As has been pointed out by other posters, throttle blipping is the secret, but you will be hard on the front breaks, so this take a noticeable amount of practice it is about rolling the throttle back and forth with the palm of your hand while keeping constant pressure on the break leaver. I personally keep the pointer finger around the throttle to help control this. I am not advocating this as it puts some nasty strain on your hands, it just is the way I am currently comfortable with it. With each gear change release your throttle, and match up the revs, then go for the next gear change. The reason for this clutch release between each gear change is so that you don’t let the engine get too out of wack with the actual bike speed. If you get it wrong you get a little back end chirp, but if you get it wrong after holding the clutch in and doing multiple gear changes who knows how badly the back end will lock up before the revs match. (Yep I have done this before and it gets a wee bit nasty (Just ask RoderickGI, he was behind me at the time)

    So basically just as hotmilk said
    Scenario three, there is also debate about the best way to do this, but I am a believer in pull in the clutch, Prepare and squeeze the Fronts, depress the rear (Trying not to let it lock), and forget the gears until the Emergency element is handled, then get down in the gears as fast as you can, ready to get out of there.

    Now when it comes to stopping at the lights, I suggest a few things, First Practice your slow riding, this will help in two ways, you will fill more confident just trundling in, in first gear slow enough that you can just foot down at your leisure (Us the front break to gently complete the stop), and Secondly the limit of slow riding is balancing at a stop, I know I can stand the bike easily for a couple of seconds without putting either foot down, eventually you will get enough balance that there will simply be no rush.
  16. I find it more useful to, just before the bike comes to a halt, steer just a whisker to the right (ie: turn the handlebars to point the wheel slightly to the right).

    Conversely, a slightly turn to the left will make the bike fall to the right.

    This way you get to decide the exact moment that the bike begins to lean toward your foot... It's a bit more assertive than leaning to one side and waiting for things to (hopefully, maybe) happen. :) Reinforces slow-riding balance techniques a little too.
  17. The only problem with this is when you need to take off in a hurry your front wheel is not straight, that is not an issue when you have a bit of experience but I don't think it is a good idea for someone with very little time on a bike. The bike falls at the moment you lean not before an not after, slow riding is all about body balance not steering inputs. I don't see how counter-steering reinforces good slow riding techniques, just my opinion.
  18. It requires both.

    This is just consciously steering to balance/unbalance the bike. I suppose technically it's countersteering, but calling it that is confusing. It's just part and parcel of slowriding.

    Normally when slowriding we do these minute steering changes to maintain balance. In this case, the minute steering change is made to cause the bike to lose balance in a specific direction.

    As for the "your wheel won't be straight" thing-
    (1) It's only a tiny steering input, not a full-lock turn.
    (2) Nothing stopping you from correcting the steering as you pull away.
    (3) Nothing to stop you correcting it while you're stationary either, unless you're a weakling and ride a Goldwing or the BatPod or something.

    In fact, when we pull away from the lights we usually (subconsciously) steer into the lean a minute amount (if the bike's leaning onto one foot) to help get the bike upright again. Don't you? :-k

    But hey... Whatever the reason the bike deliberately falls to a specific side at a specific time when you stop, it's not the process which matters, so long as it deliberately happens - encouraged by the rider. :grin:
  19. I know what you are saying I just don't think telling a very new rider to steer into oncoming traffic at take-off is a good idea (likely to cause panic and a mistake).

    No I often lift my foot up a 1/2-1 second before taking off. You uses steering inputs to stop the bike falling in the direction of the turn not to make it fall the other way, you weight shift for that. Again just my opinion but try standing a stationary bike upright with the front wheel straight (and balance the bike) then turn it a little to the right and try the same thing, it will not make the bike fall to the left but it will slightly resist it falling to the right and you can get the bike to balance for longer. Then think about what a very slow motion (maybe 1fps) will do to the situation. Steering input are there for when your body balance is not quite right hence the wobble up to the lights from less skilled riders.
  20. I'm not sure if that's the best example/evidence for your argument - the added static stability with the front wheel turned to full lock comes from the front tyre's contact patch becoming wider (relative to the bike's central axis) and because as the bike leans to one side, the front wheel's contact patch moves slightly in the same direction - i.e., the contact patch tries to stay beneath the C/G of the bike as the bike leans.

    But, start with the bike going straight at 1 foot per second, steer slightly to the right and tell me which way the bike goes to fall?

    Do a very slow tight U-turn and increase your speed, which way does it fall? To the outside of the turn. (Or slow down your speed - it'll fall to the inside of the turn; Which is why a full-lock U-turn is an exercise in speed management, not a steering exercise)

    Ultimately we're just talking about two different ways to make the centre of gravity move out of line with the contact patches on the ground. You're moving the C/G, I'm moving the contact patches (just what I prefer from a mountainbiking background).

    That's not to say that I don't shift my weight subtley when slowriding (just as the steering inputs have to be very subtle). I'm sure I do, but when my feet are clipped onto MTB cleats and it's impossible to reliably detach both feet from the pedals at the same time, I've learned it's most reliable to use steering to provoke the foot-down "lean".

    As for wobbling noobs, I think it's more that they aren't correcting their balance soon enough or subtley enough. The sooner the balance correction is made, the smaller and 'less wobbly' it can be.