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Braking mid-corner tips?

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by AhrimaaN, Jul 2, 2009.

  1. Hi Guys, I've done a quick search and haven't really found anything... so please flame on if there is a similar thread around.

    But I'm wondering what are the best braking techniques for slowing down mid-corner... say in an emergency situation when something is in your path or you have overcooked the turn and are about to run wide/narrow from either not knowing the turn before entering or another mistake.

    I'm having a hard time trusting my bike with forward/rear brake bias... so gently and very smoothly tend to apply both rear and front brakes if I need to through a turn just in case.

    The problem is I am very scared of suddenly losing grip perhaps over a bump or something as when I emergency stop in a straight line and use a bit of rear it locks up very very easily... (probably just normal though - front weight bias and all) - speaking of which I really need to adjust my rear suspension now that I have lost a few kilos in weight from mods to the bike.

    So basically I don't have a definitive answer to braking mid-turn so I just very gently use both brakes, perhaps hampering my stopping power.

    - Braking mid turn makes you stand upright = run wide?
    - I've learnt that actually in some cases (most?) it is better to throttle on and power through a turn at greater lean... this is good... but on my bike can be a real issue if I am not in the power band - a la it will bog down and possibly stall, without any extra speed = bad. - requires gear change = unsettling = bad
    - my bike is shite at U-turns and every now and then just doing a tight suburban 90 degree turn I will catch myself coming very close or even crossing the centre line on the road I am turning into (or adversely nearing the gutter if turning to the right). This is a no-win almost unavoidable situation for me I fear, as I can't power through a tight turn, and am too fearful of dropping my bike. I've saved it once or twice by putting an inside foot down and luckily my bike is light enough for this to work in emergency.
    - engine braking is apparent on my bike but not very great... (2 smoker) so can be used a little
    - I suspect new tyres will very much so improve my confidence in the bike, but I'm not near killing the stock ones yet, and they aren't pieces of crap like on hyo's.
    - throttle sensitivity is very high on my bike, though after swapping out the exhaust it is a bit smoother, no longer like flicking a switch at 8k rpm as it was originally - this helps me keep things smoother.

    This is why I can't wait to hit a track day or two just for this practise, where admittedly I won't be pushing limits as I don't won't to bin the bike to find out what the 'edge' is. haha. Working weekdays til dark and having busy weekends with not enough riding in daylight hours sucks :(
  2. Part of the training for the licence at HART included braking on a corner. I'm not sure what the rates are if you want to rock up there and have someone train you for an hour but I suspect its well less than $100. Maybe that would be worth a try if you want to sus out braking on a corner and be taught a good way of doing it. Essentially, its the same principle as an e-brake - gradually apply the brake (but you have to be lighter on the brakes when leaned over of course).
  3. First link in my list,
    Do pay attention!
  4. Just clearing up the SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) :p
  5. Hehe that's what got me thinking about it but didn't want to take it off topic- apologies.
  6. It’s a valid part of the same topic.
    Read ravens post and Robs one where he identifies that trail braking keeps the front compressed so that if further braking is necessary the suspension is ready to go.
    It is very much part of the same subject.
    So get in there… :grin:
  7. The best technique is to push harder on the inside bar to lean the bike into the turn. Braking is a chicken out move caused by panic and fear. Brakes will cause the bike to stand up and sooner or later, you'll run wide and crash as a result. You need to work through your panic and forse yourself to make the right decisions. You're bike can handle far greater lean angles than you're currently reaching so place some trust in it and lean into the turn. NEVER GIVE UP.

    Don't use either. Have confidence in your bike and use counterstreering to increase the lean angle. Rememer to keep looking through the turn where you want to go.

    If you're locking the rear during emergency stops then you need to be a little lighter on it and use the front more. This of course has nothing to do with cornering.

    When cornering you might lose grip but it's highly unlikely. However, trying to use your brakes while turning is a sure bet for losing grip. Turning uses some of the tyre's available grip. If you try to brake it willl also use some of the available grip. Get the balance wrong and you will be sliding down the road. Far safer to allocate all your available grip to getting through the turn.

    I've given you the definative answer. Don't do it. :)

    All cases really..
    That's rubish. Downshift before the turn. Going in too fast for yoyur skill level is causing the problems so set your speed in a lower gear before the turn. However, even if your gear is too high, it is better to lean the bike harder than to use the brakes.
    It's not the bike that's shit at u-turns. That's all your fault but don't worry, you'll get better at it. Remember to look where you want to go rather than at the things you don't want to hit. Target fixation will cause you to run wide and eventually crash.
    You can lean and power through the turn..... You're just scared. Your survival instinct tells you to stop but you know that's the wrong choice so you have to work through the fear rationally and force yourself into the correct reactions.
    I suspect the stock tyres are fine. :)
    Track days are great. I think you'd benefit more from rider training at HART or Superbike School. :)
  8. +1 . the intermediate course would be perfect for you.
  9. +1

    I've been in a situation where i was going through a corner at the creek, knee on the deck and realised i had overcooked it... I didn't hit the brakes but damnwell wanted to! I felt the peg start to drag but pulled through with mere inches of road left :shock:. This is a pretty extreme case and i hope it demonstrates that even when u think there's no lean left, seany's argument still stands.

    Bottom line for the OP. Get your brake dependency out of your head. Power on and crank the fcuker over. It's not a guarantee that you won't crash but the bike is much more stable when you are feeding the throttle through a corner.... and when i say give it power, i don't mean ping the bastard, roll it on slowly and smoothly.
  10. Thanks for that. I'll re-read the thread a few times to get a better grasp on it.

    Still... you need to brake sometimes... so am looking for the wisest strategies just in case.

    I've also been meaning to do the intermediate at Hart for a while now... wanted a good solid few more months on the road beforehand though.

  11. Nice work Seany.

    The problem is I am very scared of suddenly losing grip perhaps over a bump or something as when I emergency stop in a straight line and use a bit of rear it locks up very very easily... - OP

    Why do you think that is?

    What do you think would happen if you didn't let the rear spin again in a very short amount of time?

    What do you think would happen if your rear stopped spinning mid corner?
  12. The only reason you should ever brake mid-corner is for an emergency, in that case you need to stand the bike up then e-brake, if you don't have the space to do that then you are going too fast for how far you can see ahead.

    If you brake while leaning you are asking for trouble. Best advice has already been given, just keep looking where you want to go and keep the power on.

  13. maybe you need some training? at the HART course I did the biggest problem is people toppling over because they come to a stop with the bike still leaned over. but you really need instruction to do it safely.
  14. Motox madness (i.e. you're going sideways if you steer into it of course). :grin:
  15. Urgh. Why does everyone always say an outright "don't do it".

    Granted, for most newbies that are asking the question, they could easily just tip it in more and not have to wash off speed. But what kind of perfect world are we talking about here? Cars brake mid corner almost exclusively, because they're not paying any attention until they're half way through. There's such a thing as decreasing radius corners. Traffic lights after bends. Cars pulling out mid corner. etc etc etc.

    If you're riding with a safety margin, there's heaps of traction left for braking whilst leant over. Smoothly is the key.
  16. For most new riders asking the question it is a matter of allocating mental resources more so than allocating traction. The other point is they have not developed a feel for how much lean they have or how much traction they have. It is better to lean the lean bit first.
  17. Because anyone who can't e-brake without locking the rear is unlikely to be smooth or careful enough to do it safely. He has no hope of judging the limits of his tyres and would be on his arse before he even knew they'd started to slip. He simply doesn't have the skills to do it safely yet. In a situation where panic sets in, it would be unwise for a newbie to touch the brakes mid corner. Corners can be turned before braking for lights, cars pulling out can be swerved around or straight line e-braked etc. He doesn't need to brake in corners and shouldn't do it until he becomes proficient and sure as hell should never rely on it as a first option to get him out of trouble when he goes in too hot.

    Leaning in is safer and requires a lot less thought/consentration than braking in a corner.

    When he learns to ride corners properly, set his speed/gear correctly, take the correct line and use good posture and sight lines...., then he might want use familiar situations to start experimenting with brakes in corners.

    I understand the point you're making but I don't think it's relevent yet to the OP's needs. :)
  18. Cause we aren't all motorcycling gods like you mate :wink:

    But you do raise a good point. It isn't complete suicide however, being taught not to rely on the brakes is what helped me the most to get through the n00b fear.