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braking/downshifting

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' at netrider.net.au started by Tack, Mar 2, 2005.

  1. I was wondering how people get on with braking and reving to do a clean downshift when going into the corner?

    Do good riders brake AND rev simultaneously to downshift?

    Or do good riders brake.......release brake....rev....downshift then tip it into a corner?



    Just that I have been trying to rev and brake at the same time but when I rev I pull the brake on harder...lol....and it gets all jerky and not smooth.
     
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  2. just takes practice to give the throttle a lil blip while your clutch is in, brake, downshift a gear, release clutch and throttle back same position as before, can do this if u ahve to shift down multiple gears coming into a corner, then release brake and take the corner, then after the apex, roll the throttle on smooth for good exit outta the corner. that why i do anyway :)
     
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  3. I continually brake as I blip on the downshift, slowly releasing the brake as the angle of lean becomes greater. A higher idle rpm (between 2000 & 3000) will also minimise rear wheel hop & chatter (which is why you blip the throttle).

    A higher idle rpm also smooths the transition from no throttle to some throttle, it slows down the sudden steering attitude change & weight transfer (gotta remember to brake a bit harder though).

    The higher idle is really only suitable on the race track or goin hard up in the hills; around town it drives me crazy :)
     
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  4. Why do you feel the need to rev at all for a downshift? They're really shouldn't be any requirement to do so unless you've made a mistake during gear change and hit a false neutral or something.

    If you learning, then sure your gear changes might be slow and non-fluid, but if thats the case then you have more important things to worry about or practice than trying to rev during the downshifts. Under normal and fluid riding and gear changes, your engine revs will be high enough during the change without requiring more.
     
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  5. blipping the throttle is a racers technique, it simply stops the rear wheel locking up as you downshift and under brakes into a corner.

    If your not riding at race speeds, then there is no need to learn the technique.

    it's also used in car racing
     
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  6. Keith Code [creator of superbike school] writes that giving the throttle a blip on down shift reduces the stress on the crank shaft and is highly recommended technique to master so as to keep the bike unsettled when prepping for corner entry.

    It takes practice... and poor technique will actually unsettle the bike more than non blip down shifting.

    To blip and brake, blip with the thumb while squeezing on the brake with the other <insert your fave number of braking fingers here> fingers. It's actually easier to do when hard braking since your fingers provide a pivot point for the thumb. Much much harder to do gracefully at street speeds...

    Good luck with it. :)
     
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  7. Why do I need to rev on downshift??

    Well I guess cause I've raced cars for 20 odd years and heal/toeing is just part of my natural driving style as is left foot braking (rally technique). I raced 700hp V8 sports sedans even had a drive of an old V8 supercar plus competed in Victorian rally championship in a turbo Four WD. So to me its a 'normal' thing to do.

    I dunno where I'm at compared to other new riders but I regard it as good thing to learn as it makes riding in nice twisties a smoother and, in my opinion, safer experience. plus its fun.

    Why safer?... cause as I approach a corner from a straight I have no idea how sharp a bend it is. (unless you start looking at tree lines or you know the road). Therefore as I approach the corner I brake and change down to a gear that I believe suits the corner before entering it. The idea being to be smooth thru the corner and power out as the corner opens up.

    I dunno but I thought that was just normal driving/riding technique. You don't even have to be going fast to do it. It's just a nice smooth comfortable thing to do.

    However at the moment I can only brake....release brake...blip throttle....then downshift (with the right amount of revs to suit the road speed for that gear)...then tip into the bend...which is the other problem I have....I'm still learning the point at which to tip into the bend properly. But I'm gettin better at it. In a car I would brake and change down through the box while blipping the throttle simultaneously and then turn into a corner.

    Obviuosly I need to learn how to blip and brake.
     
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  8. Practise makes perfect ;-)
     
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  9. If you are riding your bike properly and smoothly, it will only loose ~1,500 to 2,000rpm during a gear change, which will still leave it well within an acceptable rev range for a smooth and stable downshift. Eg. 6,500rpm at 3rd and you'll be down to around 4,5000rpm for 2nd. Any bike than is not smooth or stable during a downshift at 4,500rpm needs mechanical or rider attention.
     
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  10. Damn that's a quick gear change presuming you roll off completely when braking and clutching...
     
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  11. I think his problem might be that he's not changing at 6500rpm, mouth, more like 11000rpm - being a 2fiddy and all ;)

    But as Johnny O said - it's just a matter of practise. Keep trying, and you'll get it!
     
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  12. More reason why he shouldn't be blipping throttle on downshifts. Plenty of revs available for a smooth and stable downshift.
     
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  13. Blipping the throttle does smooth everything out and is well worth learning, but it is only really of any benefit if you're riding quickly.

    I do find that the old BM shafty is a tricky beast for this technique though (haven't quite worked out whether it is because of the shaft drive, or that it just needs a bigger handful than the ultra-sensitive jap fours), but then being a twin it is much easier just to leave it in one gear and ride on the torque.
     
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  14. Nah BLIP THE THROTTLE. :shock: It sounds GREAT. :D :wink:

    Cheers 8)
     
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  15. I do a blip on the down changes, I've been doing it since I was about 12yo on dirt bikes, and I do it in my Mini, and in my Lancer GSR, and most cars I drive.
    It's a habit I've got into, and I race the Mini, I always heel-toe that so I just do it in bikes as well I spose.
     
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  16. I always blip the throttle....best way to match engine and wheel speed without a slipper clutch.....

    Especially important on bikes with lots of engine braking such as a v-twin.....

    However for a learner, there are other things to learn first as it requires a bit of co-ordination....

    My 2c anyway...

    jdm
     
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