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BP Regular Unleaded replaced with E10 only

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' at netrider.net.au started by MREVOX, May 28, 2009.

  1. My local BP has done away with Regular Unleaded 91 RON completely and now only sells what they call "Unleaded + up to 10% ethanol" in addition to Super and Ultimate.



    I filled up my CBF250 with this E10 stuff, unsure if it was appropriate to use a higher RON fuel. The owner's manual says it's OK to use ethanol blended fuel, as long as it doesn't exceed 10%... but they don't recommend it.

    What's the deal here? Should I fill up with Super instead? OK to keep using E10? Go to a different petrol station? (but then, how long is it before they all do this?)

    EDIT: After a bit more research, the BP website says that they do not recommend E10 for motorbikes, and further to this, link to the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries website - http://www.fcai.com.au/publications...atisfactorily-operate-on-ethanol-blend-petrol

    It's not looking good. Should I be worried?
     
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  2. Higher RON generally won't do any damage, but lower ron and ethanol won't be the best. Being that your manual says it is fine I wouldn't worry... but just move up a price bracket next tank.

    Last time I asked the BP attendent what RON ratings his petrol were him and his buddy had nfi... what RON even was... sigh.
     
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  3. I have also been informed that E10 should not be used in motorcycles and ESPECIALLY not in motorcycles that have carburetors

    Buy your fuel from a non-BP outlet in future.
     
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  4. just go the 95 it sonly a few dollars more, or you can just go to another servo
     
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  5. I will be. It wasn't a cost factor that made me fill up with it, it was more of an unawareness that they had completely switched every pump to it and I was for some reason under the impression that using a higher RON might be bad.

    I might be one of the select few that blow up my bike without crashing it. lol
     
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  6. While I personally don't like e10 fuel I can't see a tank here and there harming a bike.
    If my servo did this I would either change servos or fuel.
     
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  7. Every bike I have ever owned, and that is over 50 in 35 years of riding, I have been able to run any fuel in all of them, the petrol companies are hardly going to sell something that could cause damage.

    Back in the 80's and some of the 90's, a lot of us were putting ethenol in our sportbikes secretly, thinking it was giving us more power, it does give a higher octane rating, if the engine's state of tune is set up for it, it will give more power.

    There are plenty of forum'ers here that will give their opposing thoughts, I don't care, I know from my experience what has worked for me, some will take that as knowing they can run any fuel.

    I prefer to use ethenol +10 fuel over premium because it gives a higher octane for no extra money.

    The only time I've seen fuel make a difference to road vehicles is in my ex's Chrysler Neon, it would ping its head off with 91 octane, had to run 98 but that is an obvious proof of it needing a different fuel.

    I happily run 91 octane in my GSXR1000, it pings just as much with that in it as it does with 100 octane.

    For sure there are many contributing factors that we can't go into in this thread but basically you can run anything in your sh!tbox fourstroke streetbike.

    If you can tell the difference between fuels in your bike, good onya, stick with what you like, if you can't tell, I really do not think you have anything to worry about.
     
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  8. The ethanol in petrol is fine for most motors, not all. The main problem is that ethanol corrodes rubber fuel lines, carby diaphragms. It wont do it instantly, it just accelerates aging. Fine for the occasional tank, but not what you'd want for every fill.
     
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  9. Used a couple of tanks of E10 when I was bringing the Ural home. it didn't do any harm and the bike ran fine, but it did knock a big hole in the fuel economy. Much bigger than I would have expected.
     
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  10. wait till 3am and piss on their door and write them an angry note explaining that it will happen again unless 91ron is returned.
     
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  11. The economy drop outweighs the cost benefit per litre for regular petrol engines.

    In fact, some studies suggest that (highly dependant on engine) you'd get more k's by only filling up to 90% of your tank with non-ethanol fuel than you would if you then topped it up to 100% with ethanol.

    10% Ethanol in fuel is greenwashing at best, and fundamentally a way for petrol stations to sell more mixed fuel while getting a nice fat gov't subsidy on the ethanol.

    from http://www.business.nsw.gov.au/region/biofuels

    alternatively check out this article.
    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1725975,00.html


    also, check out this detailed study comissioned by Environment Australia:

    ( http://www.environment.gov.au/atmos...rs-vehicle-fleet/pubs/2000-hours-vehicles.pdf )

     
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  12. We have tried E10 blended fuels in everything we have with a motor and consistently came back with diminished economy.

    On the bikes, it's enough of a loss to justify NOT using it when touring. The K lost nearly 10% of the normal 340km range before the fuel pump starts to cavitate.

    Interestingly the only bike I have had that really showed any gains using 98 RON fuel was the TTR250. It was much snappier. Everything else made no difference. The K would probably run on fermented toenail clippings, albeit with poorer mileage.
     
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  13. What's "super" petrol???? I haven't seen that since they phased out lead YYYEEAAARRSS ago.? :?
     
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  14. Whilst I'm being a smartarse - I wonder if your bike would like diesel? I'm sure you get my point.

    Just boycott the servo, maybe if the message is got across that if you try to not sell normal 91 you will lose business, we might have a freakn chance. Might be worth actually telling them if you're a regular.
     
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  15. Damn straight.

    That $15 a week adds up!
     
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  16. $15 a week? That only gets me 200kms :?
     
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  17. I never fill up my bike at BP anymore, because they don't have normal ULP. Its a major PITA, but my wallet goes elsewhere.
     
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  18. for those of you that TLDR the NSW guideline that I linked/posted.

    in summary:

    Petrol stations have an obligation that their total sales comprise at least 2% ethanol across their entire fuel range.

    If people are generally choosing straight 91RON over 91E10 then that petrol station may not meet their requirements and lose out on the Gov't funding.

    Don't blame the petrol station, blame the Gov't.

    :roll:
     
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  19. Thanks for the link to the FCAI.

    Interesting to see the Jap bikes are not (as) tolerant to e5 or e10 as
    BMWs or Harleys.

    I have noted that the publication did not cite that the viscosity of ethanol is a lot greater than that of petrol... it flows less through jets in carbies, and I imagine it would flow less through fuel injectors too. This could also contribute to lean running.

    If I remember correctly the same mass of ethnanol has less energy than petrol as well.

    So to make an engine happy on ethanol you need to:

    1. Enlargen jet sizes in carbies and either have injectors open longer or install larger capacity injectors and open them the same amount of time to make up for the lower flow rate caused by the fuel being thicker.

    2. Then even more of all of the above for the reason of lower energy per mass of fuel

    3. Then even more of the above for the reason to correct the higher oxygen content of ethanol.

    4. Replace the "Rubber" hoses and seals, so they dont get dissolved.

    5. Remap the ignition curve and increase the compression ratio to take advantage of the higher octane of ethanol.
     
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  20. RACV Royalauto magazine this month June has a article. Decreases fuel economy, thus the saving you make at the pump is lost in the frequency of a refuel
     
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