Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Bought a lemon from a dealership and they won't fix it. ""L and P Motorcycles"

Discussion in 'Businesses and Service Providers' at netrider.net.au started by NoFearNick, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. Hey everyone, I've been having a dilemma with a second hand 1991 Honda CBR250RR I bought 2 months ago from a dealership named "L and P Motorcycles" based in Hornsby. Long story short I bought a bike, it's been unridable since I purchased it and the shop won't fix it unless I pay them $70/hr to look at it. I realize on my receipt from the dealership it says they offer no warranty on bikes over 5 years or 30,000km old but since it's been playing up since day 1 and the bike was not in the condition described I may have a case. I have a log of all the incidents the bike has had since purchased.

    Here is the full story (scroll to bottom for conclusion).

    On 2/5/2011 I bought a 1991 Honda CBR250RR with 46,XXXkm. They told me they had completely a minor service prior to selling it to me and that this was one of the best CBRs mechanically they had seen (although it physically had a few cracks/scratches, etc).

    Riding it home, 20 minutes from the dealership the engine cut out when I tried to take off from the lights. Leaving me stuck in the centre lane of traffic during peak hour (very dangerous), I could not start the bike again so I pushed it off to a side street. It seemed that the battery did not have enough juice left to start the bike, so I called up the shop and they came, recharged the battery and the bike started again.

    I rode on for another 20 minutes and the engine cut out yet again on Pennant Hills rd when I tried taking off the lights, forcing me to push it across lanes of traffic at peak hour onto a side street (obviously putting me at serious risk). Called up the shop and they came back (after about an hour). They decided at the time that the battery was faulty and took the bike back to the shop to replace it.

    The bike was delivered to my residence 2 days later (Wednesday) after the battery had been replaced. I then rode the bike to work on Chatswood and the engine cut out on Epping Rd, taking off the lights. I pushed the bike over to the side of the road and tried to start it again; after 5 minutes it came back to life. I continued riding and at the Pacific Highway intersection at Chatswood the engine cut out and would not start again. I had to push it over to the side of the road and attempt for 20 minutes to have it start. I eventually got it to start and got to work (although very late now).

    Tried starting the bike on Friday morning (it was very cold) and it would not start at all; even after playing with the choke, idle speed, throttle, etc.



    Started it up on Monday and rode for about 5 minutes before I noticed it losing power. Pulled it over to a side street and the engine cut out again. We tried rolling starting it; the engine started but would not hold idle speed so it cut out again. Guys from the bike shop came and picked it up that night to look at it again.

    They returned it on Tuesday night stating that the vacuum pump had a leak in it which was causing the bike to run sloppily after it heated up.

    Over the next few weeks it was rideable but there were several occasions where the power cut out while riding leaving me having to roll over to the side of the road. I will admit this was very scary when it happened, as I had been on a few main roads (Victoria Rd, Epping Rd and Lane Cove rd) in high traffic times and this occurance had put me in serious danger. Also after the bike had been ridden for 30 minutes the idle speed would be much too high and would not lower.

    I returned the bike to the shop and they held on to it for 2 weeks and apparently test rode it to try replicate the engine cutting out or high idle speed but they could find no fault with it.

    I took it back from them and had my friend who has little motorbike knowledge to look at it. After I rode it to his place the engine would not start at all. He pulled it apart and replaced the spark plugs but could not find what was wrong with it. He didn't open the carbies however as they were stuck on very tight.

    I took the bike back to the dealership yesterday to ask them kindly to have a look at it. All I wanted in the end was a working motorbike so I could commute around. They refused to look at it anymore and told me that I would have to pay them $70/hr to look at the bike and that there was no warranty with the bike (which is stated on the receipt).

    Now I'm left with a bike that won't start no matter what I try, I could take it to another dealership and pay them to fix it but I don't want to have to outlay money for a problem that should have been fixed by the original dealership I bought it from. It was clear from the beginning that the bike was not in the "excellent mechanical condition" as the dealership described and it has put me in several situations where I have been in serious danger after the engine has cut out on main roads. What are my options?
     
     Top
  2. Re: Bought a lemon from a dealership and they won't fix it.

    You should look up department of fair trading, they helped me out before when my old cage (peugeot 206) broke down and a dealer did a shoddy repair and refused to claim responsibilty.

    Be warned though its a VERY LONG process.
     
     Top
  3. Do you know who the previous owner was?
     
     Top
  4. You haven't had a very pleasant welcome to the world of 2nd hand grey market CBR250RR's, unfortunately your story is all too common.

    This is why I keep suggesting to new riders to avoid these grey market jap imports and purchase something more modern like a recent(ish) GPX250 or VTR250 or GS500.

    It's a bit late for you though :(
     
     Top
  5. How long are we talking? I pretty much just want the bike fixed so I can sell it.

    Nope, the dealership I bought it from purchased it from a wholesaler.

    I have an 09 Ninja 250R before I bought this, make me regret selling it.
     
     Top
  6. So it's never worked properly and they don't like the fact they are loosing out on the equation. Stop demanding they fix it and demand your money back.
     
     Top
  7. Return it and make noise. If they don't play ball make lots of noise. Lots and lots of noise. I'm talking set up an amp outside the shop and let every passer-by know how sub-human the owners/managers are, in chaser style.

     
     Top
  8. If they won't come to the party def get in touch with Fair Trading to explore your options.

    From DFT website:
    Non–warrantable vehicles
    Second-hand vehicles that do not have a statutory warranty must be roadworthy at the time of sale. The dealer is obliged to give consumers a form 8 which states there is no warranty under the Motor Dealers Act and must also provide a Safety Inspection Report, more commonly known as a pink slip, issued in accordance with the Traffic Act 1909 stating that the vehicle is roadworthy. The Safety Inspection Report must not be issued more than 90 days prior to the vehicle being sold. The only exception is when the registration of the vehicle has been renewed within one month of the date of sale.

    The Sale of Goods Act requires that goods sold are of a merchantable quality and purchasers of non-warrantable vehicles are protected by implied conditions that apply to all consumer contracts. These are:

    •goods must be of merchantable quality
    •goods must be fit for the purpose supplied
    •goods must be as described or match the sample.
    Where consumers feel that a vehicle was not roadworthy at the time of sale, they should obtain an independent mechanical report to support this claim.

    see more here:
    http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/C...hicles_excluded_from_secondndashhand_warranty

    Issue likely to be covered by the above and also representations the dealers made with respect to "one of the best CBR's mechanically" - after speaking with DFT call lawaccess on 1300 888 529 for some further information/referral to a clc or legal aid for some advice.
     
     Top
  9. Robbie's is the RIGHT thing to do....

    Lilley's, on the other hand, is the BEST thing to do :LOL:
     
     Top
  10. don't bend over and take it... fight the bastards.

    Take it to fair trading, take it to any road based associations you can and start to make noise. I'd write into the local newspapers, even ACA or TodayTonight (they love the whole "AUSTRALIAS WORST" angle :D ).

    Have a clear goal from the start, I would say, ask for your money back and they can have the bike. Make that the entire point and don't settle for anything less, and don't chase anything more.

    Good luck with it, keep us posted :)
     
     Top
  11. Hey buddy, sorry about the lemon, not sure if you have much to go on. Try Fair Trading, but here is something from their website.

    "Second–hand vehicles including demonstrator vehicles

    The Motor Dealers Act provides a statutory warranty of 3 months or 5,000 km from the date of sale (whichever occurs first) on second-hand vehicles, which includes demonstrator vehicles, that have travelled less than 160,000 km and are less than 10 years old (from the date the vehicle was built)."


    http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/Consumers/Motor_vehicles/Warranties.html

    BAsed on the items highlighted in red, you may have no choice but to fix at own expense. I'm assuming your in NSW. But i'd still try contacting them and see what options you have.
     
     Top
  12.  
     Top
  13. Thats the line most dealers feed but just because you are not protected under one piece of legislation does not exclude you from another - as per my previous post - the sale of goods act
     
     Top
  14. Yeah its best to check all avenues, but even i wasn't aware that the 3 months is restricted to an extent, no-ones ever mentioned those restrictions to me in the past.
     
     Top
  15. You sure fit for purpose doesn't just apply to new goods?
     
     Top
  16. Demand either a full refund (they'll say no) or a replacement for an equivalent value bike (should consider it). If no luck,go down the DFT route.
     
     Top
  17. Sounds like this business (L and P Motorcycles, Hornsby) have put it in the too hard basket because they haven't been able to fix the problem for you. Regardless of no warranty provided, the item must be of 'merchantable quality' and fit for purpose. A bike that repeatedly stalls and can't be restarted is neither of those.

    One of the best things you can do is keep this thread updated regularly. Netrider pulls HUGE number of visitors and comes up in google searches often at the top. When people search for their business name, this thread will come up.

    Continue referencing their name and update us on whether they reasonably deal with the problem, and if you really want to get them to notice - link them to this thread after its grown a bit and has some decent hits. If they have any brains in their head they'll do their best to help you out, the negative publicity is enough to seriously damage their business.
     
     Top
  18. As PGriz states I'm pretty sure motor dealers are required to provide 3 month warrenty on all sales.

    Take the legislation in with you and take someone as a witness.

    If they still don't listen contact the office of fair trading immediately.
     
     Top
  19. i didn't even know about their business, as i always go to procycles in hornsby.

    do they have a website? they don't come up on google or yellowpages?
     
     Top