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Body position advice.

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' at netrider.net.au started by spottedninja, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. Hey guys. I was hoping a few of the better riders on here could give me some tips on my body position in this pic.


    Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

  2. just a guess but your head & arms should be lower & closer to the mirror & your foot further back on the peg, I find its essential to help you steer a sporty while hanging off

    i bet your having trouble steering in with your torso that high up, I had the same issue only remedied this in the last 2x weeks since my last track day

    i am not much better though, but working on it & should learn more after CSS Level 1

    now i will let the experienced guys chime in
  3. You need to bury them deep and well off the track
    • Like Like x 4
  4. Good head position - pointing through the corner with the chin. Now let your chin drag your upper body down and towards the mirror - remember to be flexible with the wrists, elbows and shoulder. Chicken wings. If you don't shift your arse, lock onto the tank with both knees.

    I think I can spot a slight weight shift going on. If yes, then its not giving you any benefits. Its not enough and the head is still central countering any benefit. You need to move that upper body over per the above paragraph. Also your right knee is off the tank so if you are not locked in with the outside knee, your weight is on the bars. This can make you run wide. Lastly, getting upper body over and lower makes your steering inputs more efficient.

    Have you read the cornering 101 series?
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Looks good Ash.
    Your arms are a bit stiff that's all. ... Prob from a stiff grip moving into something that's not completely natural.
    The dangle of the photo doesn't help.
    His knee is on the tank. His leg look wide because he is turning his hips in...Making the outside leg look a bit more out...that's ok Mate and not a worry.

    Thinking or hoping I have a quite one this weekend...might have to get messy and cure our hangovers with a ride...after our surf lol. Will ring ya the sarvo..late when I get the kids shoite done
  6. Ride how you feel comfortable. No use contorting yourself into positions your body is not comfortable with. If body positioning was so critical, why do heaps of GP racers have such different styles and technique? Hanging the leg out for instance. Only my thoughts mind you.
    • Like Like x 3
  7. This.

    You should be leaning more than the bike if you want to carry speed, not less than it.
  8. read the cornering 101 series. Good stuff. How come a spottedninja is riding a yammy? :)
  9. I have read the cornering 101 series. I should probably reread it now that i am not living in Alice Springs and i have corners on which to practice on.

    From what i have gathered i need to drop my chin and lean off the bike more with my upper body?
  10. I am far from being an expert, but from what I picked up from CSS, here's my 2 cents.


    Your first pic looks ok.

    You: You're looking into the turn which is great, arms look a little tense, with a knee out, I'm guessing your hands and arms are doing all the bike stability stuff. Try sitting a little bit further back in your seat, and using you knees and the parts of your thighs near the knees to grip the tank on both sides. Your entire thigh doesn't have to hug the tank, just enough so you feel stable on the bike. Do this a few times until it doesn't feel awkward or uncomfortable. With the knees in gripping the tank, loosen your arms, and get a feel for how the bike handles and moves with the smallest of steering input, push the bars with as much force as pushing a full glass of water/scotch/beer across the table without spilling any of it. How does that feel?

    The Bike: Looks like the bike's reaching it's maximum lean angle. not sure about the turn, but if you needed to tighten that turn any more, you'll have very little lean left before traction will be an issue. Not sure how fast you're going there, but the more traction you have, the better. This means keeping the bike as upright as possible. Try shifting your body weight forward and into the turn. The heaviest parts of your body when riding is your head and chest. Consider this mental image.. Align your spine in the direction you want to go, and don't tense anything. Move your butt a little if you need to, but don't twist the body... then just lean forward, not all the way down at first, cause you'll get a little surprise (the bike will turn pretty sharply). As you get the feel for what your weight is doing to the bike dynamics, lean forward and lower more and more, little by little - all while keeping your upper body, arms and hands completely relaxed, using your knees to hold you to the bike. How does this feel?


    This second pic looks like you're fighting the bike. Just keep in mind, to grip the tank with both knees. You're doing this to train yourself to not use your arms and hands as stabalisers. Once you get familiar with how much pressure is needed to stay on the bike with just your knees and thighs, you will begin to get a feel for adding more pressure to one side (Knee and thigh) while moving your other knee off the tank to assist in adjusting your body weight "off the bike". as more and more of your body becomes "off-set" from the normal seated position, you will develop a sense of connection to the bikes stability, and will begin to know when grip is reaching its limits. Tank grips helps heaps in this area!!

    In this pic, the bikes leaned over, but your torso is all twisted. Your arse and left knee are in the turn, but everything above the hip is trying to remain upright - it's counter productive.

    The outcome is not to try and get your knees scraping or touching the ground, but it should be on making the bike as stable as possible. With enough practice, your knees will be scraping the road in no time, and when it does, it means the bike is reaching it's maximum lean angle, and shouldn't be leaned any further.. Understanding body weight transfer will mean you will have more traction at speeds you used to do (because the bike is more upright).. and find that with the extra lean the bike now has, shifting your weight even more or increasing the lean angle will mean you can take corners faster. But don't rush it. Unless you feel comfortable and stable on the bike in the position you are in, the line you want may not always be the line you get because deep down, you will fight the bike.

    Now you don't have to use weight transfers for every corner, most road corners I maintain an upright position - simply because there's no need to "strengthen" the turn at the speeds I'm using. And you don't always have to sit away from the tank, if you're cruising along, then slide forward while maintaining the grip if that's more comfortable.

    Anyway, sorry for rambling..
  11. Your body position is reasonable (nothing absolutely wrong).

    But you can improve it, quite easily.

    1. Open up your shoulders to the corner. Ie in a left hand corner, turn your inside shoulder (Left), out a little. The action is to pull it back a little.
    You are beginning to rotate around the tank, which will get worse if you were going faster. You are already showing signs of being crossed up.
    Your shoulders and head need to lead your upper body and should be across/out alot further, and then down. Your position is typically too conservative for the corner, which is a trap for developing riders getting into their cornering. They move their body over but then keep their heads closer to the centreline of the bike.

    2. Your inside foot position looks good, with your foot pivoted around to point into the corner. But you can go a little more by lifting your heel up to allow you to swivel it a bit more. This puts your knee and leg in better alignment. Then when you move your bum across your knee will bend quite naturally and stick out further.

    Just a note. Going by the height of the grasses alongside this corner, visibility through the corner may be partial obstructed. If I'm guessing correctly, then you are unable to commit fully to the corner, and that prevents you from getting out forward and down. Driving your elbow out and down might help get you into position.

    Sorry that sound a lot, but it's just a 5 min feedback chat.

    You look good and in control for a conservative open road pace in pic 1.. Pic 2 leads me to think you are going faster, and it is this pic that is starting to show cracks in your technique. Little things... that become big things at higher pace, that will form bad cornering habits.

    Very good idea to post a few pics and gather input. Kudos to you. :))
    • Like Like x 2
  12. how do you know how far to lean your body?

    i need to lean my body more (from photos), but when i do it can feel exaggerated
    and not beneficial to cornering

    how can you tell if you are leaning not enough/just right/ too far????
    or do you just compare your photos to moto gp
  13. Well, a good guide is...if it feels overdone, then it's about right.
    No, don't compare yourself to motogp riders.

    The faster you go, the more extreme it will feel, the more correct it will be.
    That's a rough guide, that will get you close enough.
    But more importantly, is to have your upper body using the correct technique. Then you just put it out there more relative to the increased speed/turn balance.
  14. I for one would feel damn chuffed if Rob or Raven followed me and gave me advice. I trust their opinions.

    When I started moving my upper body forward and over, it just felt "right". Keeping my chin, not only pointed in the direction I wanted to go, but also "up and out", not down, really helped pull me through the corners, plus having one's head in the right spot helps with the 'vision'. By which I mean you don't feel tilted over, which can be offputting as it increases the feeling of "exaggeration". Plus the bike doesn't lean as much, and if you need to increase the lean, it's a lot easier to pull the bike (and yourself) down further.

    I'm certainly no expert, but the first thing I noticed in those photos when I looked at them last night was a slight tendancy of "crossing up".
  15. Interesting discussion.

    Im going to read up on all these texts when I get time .... but my recent feeling is that head position is not enough and if I kinda "slide" my shoulders across into the turn ... at the same lean angle as the bike or more ... the bike feels like it would be happier carrying way more speed.

    Also feels a little bit edgier/sketchier as some of you guys are saying.
  16. What happened to you? You've turned into a real dick lately.

    Not everyone is as good a rider as you, and yes I know you're a good rider. I mean that sincerely. For some people it doesnt come as easily. Others however are naturally gifted but still want to improve hence they ask for advice, or do CSS and the like. It's nothing to do with getting a few thousandths of a sec faster and everything to do with being more comfortable and smooth when riding.
  17. Sigh. My wife left me, the cats got kittens, & someone drank all my beer. Oh, hang on a minute, that was me.
    Honestly, look @ the photos. See if you see what I see. A late model sports bike, presumably on top notch rubber, @ about 20° of lean angle. Do you seriously think body position matters one little bit here? You could sit side saddle on the bike, & still make it round the corner. Climbing all over the bike & sticking your head in funny positions will only unsettle the bike, as well as lock you into one position, making it very difficult to change line if required. Getting smoother has nothing to do with hanging off the bike like a monkey. It has more to do with getting a feel for the bike, tyres, & suspension. Reading internet forums won't help here. Putting petrol in the tank, & riding the shit out of the bike in all conditions will. When you start dragging hard parts of the bike on the road, that's the time to start hanging off like a monkey.Or not. If you're riding a late model sports bike that hard, take it to the track instead. Or ignore me cause I'm a d!ck
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Sorry to hear bloke. Been there myself. I'll let you run with your opinion because it does make sense, however what the other guys are saying does too.
  19. I have followed spots a few times.

    The issue here is speed.... Being use to it, and holding it.
    There is no reason to hang off a bike unless you have to...earlier that day he had scraped his toes a few times by not leaning off the bike enough...and now has the brain speed to hold corner speed. So now he needs the techniques to do so...which he is being given by all.
    The hardest part is belief, in yourself and what the bike is going to do, and that you will come out the other side.
    And nothing but saddle time will give you the self belief, confidence in yourself to be able to be light enough on a moving bike...a very fastly moving bike.
    He could have got his head down a bit...but hard with stiff arms haha....and that is confidence showing through as Raven stated....
    Becoming a good rider, a fast rider is more about getting rid of your bad bits.
    Learn your basics with riding well, get to understand your bike well and the rest will come naturally... If you lead with your eyes.... get your face right in there. That takes the rest of your body with you.
    • Like Like x 1
  20. He he he. I'm a prick. Only pulling your chain. Forgotten how many years ago she left. Good riddance I say. Best thing that happened to me :)

    I still stand by what I say about over complicating things though. Riding well is more about hand eye coordination once you get to a certain point. The basics ARE simple. It's the refining that takes the effort, or more to the point, time. If you fill someones head with unnecessary information overload, sure as shit they will find it difficult to put into practice. I've taught plenty of apprentices to weld. Similar process. Shit loads of theory behind it, but it still comes down to hand eye coordination and plain old practice. Can't learn that in a book, or internet forum. Filling your head with "style" is no substitute for miles in the seat. Once you have the basics, which are simple & easy to learn, the rest comes down to "feel" The only way you get that, is to ride. Lots.
    • Like Like x 2