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Blind Corner bike/car crash - discuss what you might do different?

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by robsalvv, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. Check out the video clip on this Slovanian motorcycling site:


    There's an old adage in motorcycling - never ride faster than the stopping distance in which you can see to be clear, or better worded: Ride at a speed that allows you to come to a stop in the distance you can see to be clear.

    That would make for quite a few corner - but the clip shows an example of why that might be a good thing on a blind corner. In Australia, we might have a concealed driveway sign on the blind corner shown in the video, but not where this rider was riding.

    Since there's a roadcraft angle to ply here, I've not put this in multimedia.

    Another layer for those who can't read Slovenian... is that this rider had a passenger... it's very clear if you watch the shadow... OOOWCH!!

    So check out the clip and discuss.
  2. Staying wide on approach and make a deep entry would have enabled the rider to see further around the corner. Being wide also makes the bike visible to the driver sooner.
  3. no idea. the road leading up to the junction is a perfect high speed country road and there's nothing indicating an approaching hazzard. I'm pretty sure I'd have done exactly what this poor guy did and come up to that junction at 100. even being slightly nearer the centre line wouldn't have helped.

    Although the car isn't visible to the bike until he's right on top of it I'd put money on the fact that the car could see the bike easily enough if he'd bothered to look
  4. Speak up, noobs! Let's hear what YOU think about this before we get too much expert opinion here.
  5. You should be able stop in HALF the distance visible to you.
  6. Beautiful Saturday, but little rain does not stop each and every biker. Especially not the BMW-clearing. Anyway, it was very little moisture. So, superannuation GS1200, thence to a maximum speed of 110 kilometers per hour. Beautiful roads, piping bend around the corner the last 100 kilometers. Then bring in the left corner and a white van or something on my waist.

    gotta love those superannuation gs1200's

    edit - have removed the majority of my dribble and decided to start my own thread relating to a question i was going to ask instead of derailing this thread.
  7. Wow, that's scary...

    That's one of the reasons why I prefer following so much more than leading: I like to have someone in front of me, finding the potholes, clearing the way, etc. I am so much less confident without someone in front of me, that I go as a much slower speed.
  8. Being wide would certainly help. The rider apparently had good local knowledge so that blind shouldn't have been a surprise. He should have known about the driveway. In my books, he should have backed off and gone wide with a late tip in. But he's probably done that corner at speed many times and nothing has ever happened... this time, his number (and his pillion's) came up.

    Simon, you have the luxury of time to consider your options - surely there's one thing you could think of.

    I've heard this before. Why do you think that?

    Let's look at the whole video. What do you think about the guy's cornering approach and lines? Do you think his crash was set up at the last corner or in his basic approach to corners?

    If you can see through a corner, you don't need to take the classic wide and late entry position. If you can see through a string of corners like you can at at least one point in the clip, you need to decide early how you're going to set up for the corner you can't see around. How do you think this guy factored that kind of thinking in his riding?

    Going slower gives you some additional time to spot and react to things - that's not a bad thing. But if you're doing that with a heightened sense of caution, it could be fueling your survival reactions, so just be aware of that. One of the key results is possibly that you'll tip in early into your corners (a classic survival reaction thing) which can open up a bunch of other issues... so keep your self awareness switched on.
  9. Watching the video for the first time I saw a flash/reflection at the 30 second mark moving from right to left. Although it went behind a hill for a little bit, it became pretty obvious that was the car that was hit 10 seconds later. Replaying the video it's visible even earlier.
  10. (I think that's a typo, you mean around 20seconds).

    What do others think?
  11. True, you can see the car driving up to the street. While watching the video I was way too focused on the road and what's in front of the rider, to realize that it's a car coming towards the intersection. But then when I ride myself I go slower, at my speeds I don't have that tunnel vision, so I am more aware of my surroundings.
  12. great vid on how little time one actually has if not got mind on the job!! Hard part is, we have the luxury of time to review and replay, the first time was a shocker, then upon review 'maybe he could have used the exit ramp' maybe he could have been going slower, better lines etc. Better to learn from someone elses's mistakes, great vid Rob!!
  13. yeah, he's right Rob (although, it's around the 10-15 second mark, not 30). If you look very early on, the car is visible as it's coming over the hill. Where he comes out is the bottom of the hill.

    If I was in that car, I would've been looking toward the road while going over that hill to see if there was traffic around (no guarantee, but a heads up so to speak)

    on a bike, if I knew that corner was there, I would've been taking it very easy knowing there was a road there, If I didn't know the area, I can very much see how it would be easy to get into trouble with that one.

    This is pretty much the perfect storm. If you'd been doing everything totally correct, you would come out of that OK, however, you would've been going very slowly around that bend. Not too sure how many riders would be going slow enough to be able to stop with that one.

    What SHOULD you do:
    - ride at a speed where you can stop in the distance you can see to be clear
    - take a wide line to ensure maximum visibility around that bend

    In reality, would I do that? That's a good question. I was riding on the weekend and I asked myself that question a number of times while in the twisties. I wasn't pushing it by any stretch, but I often asked myself, "can you stop in the distance you can see around that bend?". To be honest, my answer on a few of those occations was: "I don't know". This is a very timely thread Rob.
  14. Keeping your head up, looking ahead, scanning, all could have helped in this situation. Seeing something like this makes it all too clear why we keep getting told to look well ahead and not down at the ground or the current corner.
  15. I would think here in Aus you would have a sign showing a road on a bend and probably one of those side street mirrors they put up. They would give you a better warning of what's ahead, however, it doesn't remove the responsibility to ride at a speed where you can stop in the distance you can see to be clear
  16. Well you can clearly see that a interection is comming up. I would of slowed down to start with.
    I also would of taken a wider line. You can see he is right next to the kerb making him harder to see.
  17. He didnt look to scrub much speed off before impact. Certainly doesnt look like a road with a design speed of 100km/h.
  18. I'd hope to see a sign lke this in Australia:


    Great detective work on spotting the car coming down the hill. Fark me, I didn't see that. I saw a sparkle about the 20sec mark about where I expected to see the intersection in the distance and guess what? There's a mirror there for the car driver to use! Whether the driver could have seen the bike in the mirror is a big question.

    I don't think the car stops. From the first frame that the car appears, it looks like it just keeps coming - so the driver is partially to blame IMHO - but that doesn't really matter, the bike is trashed and the rider is lucky not to be more injured!

    [MENTION=31555]spenze[/MENTION] [MENTION=31555]spenze[/MENTION], I'm still curious to know your view about the half stopping distance.

    The rider crashed at 80km/h. I reckon he was taking this road slower than normal because of his pillion - this might have saved their lives (no I don't work for the TAC), but given his early turn ins, I reckon he was setting up that perfect storm.
  19. Watched it a few times now - it's a tough one.
    I'm not sure if I'd even get it done, but I might try aiming for that driveway on the left as soon as I saw the car - you gotta know at that speed you ain't stopping in time, and the driveway looks the most achievable...
  20. Thats the one.

    ah, the rectangle with the white edges... I did see that, but didn't recognise it as a mirror. I was expecting to see a round one (like in Aus). Just shows, you don't see what you're not looking for...
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