Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

NSW Bikies little threat to society - police study

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Rocket3, May 7, 2012.

  1. OUTLAW motorcycle gangs call themselves the ''1 per centers'', the fringe minority that will never be part of mainstream society. But police figures show bikies' commit less than 1 per cent of all crimes in NSW and ''are not a threat to mainstream society''.

    A police report on the gangs - or OMCGs - using a decade worth of crime data, obtained by the Herald, shows in NSW ''OMCG members have contributed to 0.37 per cent of offences committed''.

    ''This percentage on its own does not portray a culture that is a threat to mainstream society or involved in consistent and broadscale crime,'' the report says.

    ''Over the 10-year period … a total of 990 OMCG members have been charged with a total of 7647 criminal or serious traffic offences. This means that 50.2 per cent of all known OMCG members of NSW have been charged and processed.''

    Police say ''OMCG members are over-represented in certain crime categories'' pointing to 1678 violence related charges.

    ''Of this figure 41 were connected to homicide-related matters, 879 drug-related charges were processed. Of this figure 306 were related to drug supply offences''.

    But based on these numbers police say ''there is no other portion of the community that has such a large rate of offending, that are consistently violent in their behaviour and so entrenched in the illicit drug market in this state''.

    The bikie barrister Wayne Baffsky, the lawyer for the United Motorcycle Council and Hells Angels, rejected this statement as ridiculous. ''These figures don't discriminate about minor and major offences, drug, traffic or otherwise,'' he said.

    ''Secondly, when they charge someone associated with a club, even if they are not members, they are attributed to the clubs - that's a huge problem.''

    Mr Baffsky was with the UMC's Saturday night convoy from Liverpool into Kings Cross, where amid a heavy police presence 30 members parked on Bayswater Road opposite the Trademark Hotel, run by the Kings Cross identity John Ibrahim.

    Despite the UMC's promises of peace and goodwill there was a noticeable change in the group's demeanour when Mr Ibrahim and an entourage including ''Tongan Sam'' arrived about midnight and stood outside the hotel for an hour or so.

    Last month, the Premier, Barry O'Farrell, moved on the bikies, banning them running tattoo parlours along with a raft of legislative changes to the Crimes Act as a response to tit-for-tat shootings that included an attack on a house rented by the former Nomad president Sam Ibrahim.

    Zac, a Comanchero working with the UMC, said bikies are allowed to come into Kings Cross despite Mr O'Farrell announcing blanket bans on them wearing club colours and emblems in Kings Cross venues.

    He blamed ''the media, government, the police pumping it out, making us look like the bad people''.

    ''We are just like everyone else, we got a wife and kids waiting for us. Jobs. Responsibilities. We just ride our bikes and that's it,'' he said.

    But police see it differently, reporting OMCGs are ''more likely to be involved in the commission of a crime''.

    Police crunched the numbers from January 1, 1999 to December 31, 2008. In NSW, 2,073,718 offences were processed, of which 7647 were linked to confirmed members of OMCGs in NSW.

    • Like Like x 1
  2. I'd be very interested to know how many were actually convicted, because I'd bet my mortgage it wasn't 990.

    I'd also quite like to know what constitutes a "serious traffic offence" so that I can compare it with the level of lethal f'wittery I see from Joe and Jane Citizen every day.

    And I'd like to know exactly how many of those 7647 offences were traffic offences.

    Overall, though, I'd look at this as a rather feeble attempt to spin the results of a study that, in fact, shows what many of us already know, to justify the colossal waste of police and legislative resources and the erosion of everyones civil liberties to combat a barely existent threat.
    • Like Like x 2
  3. I agree with PatB. Statistics are always used in the way that best illustrates the argument of the person providing them. I'm not saying that OMC members haven't done bad things (think Sydney Airport recently) but I'm always wary of people throwing around stats to prove their point.

    It's be interesting to see the breakdown of the 7647 offences - even the quote from the copper is confusing - "of this figure...of this figure..." - is he referring back to the total in both cases or is the second a subset of the first? Assuming each is part of the 7647 total, he accounts for 1678 + 41 + 879 + 306 = 2904. What do the rest of the 7647 relate to (4743 offences)? Having loud pipes? Drink driving?

    Also, they say 990 OMC members have been charged, equal to 50.2% of all OMC members. I have no clue as to the current number of members of OMCs, and the rate of membership turnover, but from a statistics perspective, is this reference the current number of OMC members , or the total who would have been members in the 10 year period? The second method is the right way, using stats from a 10 year period to refer to the membership over the same 10 year period. If, he's used the first way, he'll be overstating the rate. To illustrate the point, they are saying there are roughly 1975 OMC members (a guess, as I'm sure the cops don't have access to membership registers). If membership turnover is 100% in a 10 year period (unlikely, but just to illustrate the point) then the total members in 10 years will have been 3950 and therefore the offence rate would be 25.1%, not 50.2%.

    The other bit of smoke and mirrors is to talk about the nasty offences and then to link them by inference to all 990 offenders. Some of these offences will include traffic violations many Netriders may have also clocked up - again, it'd be interesting to present the stats as to the how many of the 990 were charged with the nasty stuff. Again to put the case in a ridiculous way, maybe there's one guy who did all the bad stuff and 989 were charged with traffic offences. Not likely, but you know what I mean.
  4. Yeah, public shootouts, extortion and drug dealing pose no threat at all to society...
  5. You've tried to nom somewhere, and they beat your arse and threw you into the street, didn't they?!
    • Like Like x 3
  6. It runs like this,

    You get hit with 10 charges, only 2 stick, They can close the books on 10 offences,

    Makes them look good,

    Dangerous riding is a criminal charge, Pop a wheelie, Thats Dangerous riding, Even Joe Citizen gets charged with that,

    Thats lumped in with every thing else, Its just to make the figures sound good,

    If you really want to play with the statistics,
    You can make OMC's come out looking like the good Guys, and every one else as evil as,

    But it makes good reading for the Masses. It appeals to their finger pointing ways and not at themselves,

    Get realistic, Compare Popo criminal against OMC criminal charges, over the last 10 years, I bet the POPO will win by a long margin,

    Any one want to dig up the figures, Comparing both, You might find the Popo should be an illegal organization, and banned,
  7. I's interesting to me that NSW police have even created such a report, even in the SMH has obtained it under the counter. Why have they documented something that refutes statement that police forces in SA, WA and VIC have gone to great lengths to convince the public of?

    Even the police would know that you never ask a question (or document facts) unless you already know what the answer will be. And it suits your agenda. Something odd here.

  8. this.
  9. the goverment is trying to pass laws that take away everyone ( not just bikies) rights and freedoms and spending millions and millions doing it .
    Then the same people have stats that OMC's are only responsable for 0.37 % of the crime in the state, now these stats werent collected by bikies they were collected by the own police force.

    so a few things are happening here ;
    a. all the bullshit and lies that they are and have told about how OMC's are responsable for all the crime , drug trade and everything else is a lie ( which is now proven by there own police force) ................. and you still cant comprehend that.

    b. these laws have a bigger purpose and not just bikies so that is why they have to push them through so they can be used on any other branch of the general public , ( remembering nearly all these laws and acts dont say bikers, bikies etc they say words to the line of " any member of the general public" ) ............................ and once again you cant see that

    C. You are a troll , a professions arguementest . as per your profile Polemicist, so eitehr way your opinions are the same as the cup in your avatar .............. full of shit .
    • Like Like x 1
  10. New research shows 8 out of 10 people believe that two thirds of the stastics they read on Internet forums are between 35% - 40% inacurrate
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Rainbow 7. You do realise that the various state (and federal) governments recognises many of the OMC's as legitimate organisations under the various Fair Trading departments and the clubs are on the ASIC register.

    Surely if they (the Government) were serious and could actually prove the clubs were criminal organisations they wouldn't provide them with legal protection under the Acts that governs assocations, organisations and businesses.

    Even in S.A where the Government have tried to wipe out the Finks, Finks MC Incorporated, is still a registered association.

  12. Justus.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. ye i love how everyone just believes everything SMH posts up. you wouldnt believe how easy it is to spin something the other way just by copying little excerpts out of a report.
  14. You have got to be kidding me?
    A mentally ill person commits murder and you want the Police Commissioner to be charged. Might as well charge the petrol company that supplied him the fuel as well by that reasoning.

    And the record companies for the murders committed by deranged listeners.
  15. The police commisioner intended to cause paranoia so that he can demand more powers.

    the petrol company intended the fuel to be used in a vehicle.

    If he is innocent he will be acquited, let him stand up and be judged for his actions.
  16. Just because the police commissioner makes irrational statements, that doesn't mean that you have to as well.
  17. So you are saying he won't be aquitted. Even more reason to charge him.
  18. Even more irrational than your original statement.
  19. That incident you are referring to occurred in 2009.THAT WAS THREE YEARS AGO.

    Please tell me what ludicrous statements the police commissioner made at the time that led to this murder.