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Bikers bring roads to standstill over rising fuel prices -UK

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by Farab, Jun 6, 2008.

  1. Yeah but really... what have they done?

    They've protested that and made it obvious that they are against higher fuel prices (well duh... who isn't).

    Where they've gone wrong is assuming that their government (or any government!) can do anything much except short term band aids.

    Peak Oil... get used to it people.

    It's a rough ride downhill for petroleum transport from here :(
  2. yay - a slow ride by a minority group of road users already getting 80mpg complaining about the price of petrol.
  3. ZRX..

  4. The problem there is that if remove the tax the small price falls will be soon eaten up by rising prices.

    So your stuck with higher fuel prices and falling tax revenue. You never know they might spend the tax revenue on actually fixing the problem, like incentives for locally produced hybrid cars.

    Hybrid cars may be or may not be the solution
  5. I'm glad that people have the done something to express their opinions in a non-violent and (relatively) effective way, hell it made the news... Its a good start.

    phizog, those kind of figures really get to me :evil:
  6. We will all have to trade in the family car to a motorbike and sidecar.
  7. Rising fuel prices already forced me to get a MC licence and buy a bike back in feb.

    Taking the bike to work 3+ days a week now is saving me heaps. Now I have options and the old gas guzzler can be traded in soon for a less resource hungry cage.

    Glad I made the plunge. At least I can have fun on the bike and save $$ :)
  8. Nobody protests against fuel prices like the Brits (maybe the French..).

    In around 2001 truck drivers staged a blockade of fuel distribution centres and literally bought the country to a standstill. It was quite eerie driving on almost completely empty roads for about a week (didn't stop my wife getting a speeding ticket though :roll: ) - but even then, you couldn't afford to stray too far from home as there was literally no fuel anywhere.

    It seemed to do the job though, and the Govt and fuel suppliers sat up and (briefly) took notice.

    Bear in mind that in the UK at the moment, fuel is around $3 per litre and diesel is around $3.50 - and it's rising every week.
  9. neglects a few very important real world points:

    1. Price is still determined very much by supply and demand. Futures are a big effect on this, because panic buying for future values puts up the current value

    2. That old chestnut - greenhouse gasses. Taking what, according to this article, is only 18% of the worlds oil supply (plus equivalent masses of coal, of which there are also huge reserves) has had an effect on the planets climate. Saying that there is no peak oil problem completely ignores this, when peak oil may have already been passed, if 'peak' is defined by planetary climate rather than volume available to burn.

    3. The last line about "human enginuity will prevail" is bullshit without provocation. Unless you give people a reason to change, they won't. Higher oil prices are just a catalyst.
  10. I respect your opinion, but # 2 is only valid if you buy into the whole man made climate change thing (if I understand you correctly)

    Spikey, don't know about OZ, but similar to the UK, everytime I fill up, it has creeped up another few cents. 98 was $2.15 last night. It always seems as though its BP that puts their price up first...
  11. You did understand correctly. But the weight of scientific evidence shows that we are affecting the world around us. The debate is still open though as to 'how much'.

    I don't think that even the skeptics can ignore what would happen if we take the ALL the stored coal and oil carbon on the planet, and then mix it with oxygen. We'd have an atmosphere much closer to that of venus than the one we are used to. Trees cannot solve the problem because they are only temporary sequestration devices (and they emit CO2 most of the time anyway - only when photosynthesising and healthy do they produce O2).

    In the past, all of this happened over a long enough time period that evolution had a part to play in what survived and what didn't (both plant and animal). Given that it took a whole century to burn the first trillion barrels and only now is China and India (the worlds largest population base by far) coming into lots of private transport, it isn't hard to see that all this will happen very very fast in evolutionary terms.

    THat still doesn't change the issues related to this thread in regards to fuel prices needing to go up to encourage change (for whatever reason, even if only for cheaper transport and food), prices being affected by supply and demand (and demand is much larger now because of China and India than it was 10/20 years ago), supply being same or lower than in the past because of diminishing investment (and cyclone destruction) in refinery capacity AND people bidding the price of contract oil up on the futures market based on sometimes irrational behaviour.
  12. But what everyone really wants to know is - what does pro-pilot think about all of this? :wink:
  13. Why? there are too many cars on the road and the government needs to raise money somehow.

    So if they reduce the tax on petrol they must raise it somewhere else. You'd whinge about that and you'd still be whingeing about how crowded the roads are.

    In Australia we pay even less as a percentage. I say put more tax on petrol.
  14. Okay, time for some facts.
    Total coal reserves = estimated 900,000,000,000 tonnes
    Total oil reserves = estimated 1,200,000,000 barrels

    If burned using current technology that's
    2,439,000,000,000 tonnes of CO2 from coal and
    489,000,000,000 tonnes of CO2 from oil

    Big scary end of the world type numbers huh.

    Until you realise volcanic activity on this planet produces on average:
    500,000,000,000 tonnes of CO2 per year

    I'd be more worried about something like the Yellowstone Park Caldera erupting than humans burning up all the oil.
  15. good for you

    there are suggestions though of very different numbers to yours
    which, even usual short imperial tonnes, is quite a few orders of magnitude below the number you punched up.

    More significantly however, coal and oil are sources of carbon stored without the presence of oxygen. Unlike much of the CO2 expunged from volcanoes, which is just moving the same CO2 around again and again, commonly from groundwater and ocean sources, where CO2 naturally dissolves (and is also the cause of acid rain). (see http://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarctica fact file/science/12.jpg for a piccy of the basic carbon cycle, of which volcanoes are a part, but stored oil and coal is not). So volcanic activity isn't really a rapid load on the environment like our consumption is.

    Either way, we already know from building glasshouses for making food, that the result can be greater than the sum of the parts.

    Having said that, the price of fuel is affected by many things, one of which, whether you like it or not, is politics like the Kyoto protocol, the EPA and motorvehicle air standards like EURO4/5, all of which have the same effect - reducing CO2 into the atmosphere from previously oxygen locked sources.

    THe effect this has on the 'peak oil' theory is equivalent to having already reached it, regardless of the true quantity of material left in the planet's crust.
  16. Higher fuel prices = more people on PTWs

    More people on PTWs = lower rates of car hits bike type crashes

    More people on PTWs = more political clout

    More people on PTWs = better chance of relevant public servants having PTW experience (or knowing people who have)

    More political clout + better informed PSs = more bike friendly roads + less bullshit propaganda


    Higher fuel prices = lower crash risk + better roads + less bullshit propaganda

    Bring it on I say. We just have to do a little gentle steering to work this to our advantage.
  17. Personally i think the current prices in AU are blown out of proportion.

    Yes it has gone up. Yes that sucks but for a person travelling 15,000km/yr averaging 10L/100km going from $1/L to $1.50/L has made a $14/wk increase in fuel costs.

    My car loses $166/wk in depreciation....or $152 more/wk than increased the petrol prices LOL.

    In 5yrs time the prices will be nearing $3/L. The solution isn't decreasing taxes. It isn't increasing production nor increasing efficiency. All those things do is delay the inevitable. People seem to have forgotten it's a non-renewable fuel source. The solution involves finding an alternate fuel source which IS renewable or at least available for 300+ yrs.
  18. There is still about the 1/3 of Earth's oil left.

    Everyone is just lead to believe it's almost depleted.