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Big Bore Bikes - Lets think

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by Sir Skuffy, May 16, 2005.

  1. Hey all,

    I have been watching the posts the last few weeks and the backward and forward sledging.... So, here is my thought.

    When a person gets off of their restrictions (most people and this is not generalising), the first thing they want to do (if affordable) is BUY A BIGGER and MORE powerful motorcycle.

    So, my question is, why do people need to get the biggest and baddest bike available with only 12 months experience?????

    The day we answer this question is the day we will solve the death issues.

    A story. March 1999, California.

    After a cold cold winter in sunny CA, many riders looked upon the first magnificent weekend as an opportunity to dust off the bike and go for a ride. On this magnificent day, at Alices (a motorcycle meeting point in the Santa Cruz Mountains on the 4 ways between Skyline, Hwy9 and Boulder) there were literally HUNDREDs of motorcycles. Ranging from harleys to sport bikes to motards. Well, some of us rode all through the winter and virtually every day so we were well "run in". A large percentage of the tounger riders on new and powerful bikes would come out to play - Squids. Well, on this faithful saturday, there were 11 crashes that occurred by lunch and a total of 6 fatalities over the weekend.

    What is the lesson.
    1. Dont ride above your head
    2. Dont buy a bike you are not experienced enough to ride

    I have 26 years of riding experience and ride a GSX1400. I will not ride a new 1000cc sport bike for a number of reasons which include the fact that I am not experienced enough to ride it to it deserved potential.

    So, maybe, those wanting to buy a big bike should think twice. Maybe, this way, we can preserve life.

    Anyway, just my thoughts, nothing more.
  2. What is the "deserved potential" of a 1000cc sport bike?
  3. Thing is, you can kill yourself on pretty much anything if you don't have much experience. Are you really more likely come off an R1 than an R6 if you are moving up from say a CB250?

    And some would argue that even a 250 is too powerful for beginners....

    In England we were restricted to 3bhp 50cc beasts (250's can make up to 55 for a comparison), you could do some really stupid things on them and live to tell the tale (I speak from experience) and going from one of them to a GPZ900 was a real eye-opener I can tell ya :shock:
  4. no doubt part of the problem is that they don't even have restrictions over there as far as i'm aware, do your 2 day course and then buy yourself a shiney new R1 etc. of course an R1 and similar bikes arn't all that cheap, but don't worry about having to fork out $$$ for a helmet, as they're not legally required in some states :shock: :? :roll:
  5. You know what I am referring to mouth.

    For instance, I have a friend on this site that is moving from a 250cc Kawi and was considering buying a GSXR600. Well, this person is a pretty good rider but not good enough to handle the bike and the maturity needed to handle the bike. So, an SV650 is ordered instead.

    I guess what I am eluding to is a combination of experience and maturity.
  6. Is it legal to ride with out a helmet in Cali. If so might explain some of the deaths..
    I know its legal in some states.. forgot which ones
  7. Hey Nova.

    Yes, you are certainly more likely to crash on an R1/R6 compared to a CB250.
    Excelleration is quicker
    throttle control is finicky
    Breaking is different
    Bike riding style is different
  8. personally, i think the 12 month thing is BS. something that would curve the number accidents due to inexperience would be to bring in a minimum Kms travelled restriction and then have an advanced braking/cornering course for ppls wanting to upgrade.

    i also think that the restrictions themselves are just as stoopid, you cant ride a docile commuter bike like a GS500, but you can go for gold on a replica race bike like an RS250 :? NSW have it right on this one, the 260cc restriction is a load of shyte.

    but then, the bike is only part of the problem isn't it. it may not be that said rider cant handle the bike, it might be that they are just a dumbshit that does the wrong thing in the wrong place. all the experience in the world isn't gunna save you if you wanna play ghostrider every weekend....
  9. Yep that's the thing, being mature enough 2 ride within your experience level :idea:
  10. OH, one more thing.

    There are a few of us on this site that have come into riding through MX and enduro riding. This type of riding has taught many of us the appreciation of control and maturity.

    Why not have, as part of rider training, a manditory dirt bike riding course along gravel roads? Hell, you will learn the way a bike performs when you brake too hard or get it sliding?
  11. I meant 'comparing an R1 vs an R6 after riding a 250'
  12. I don't get this, you ride a 1400cc bike, but you aren't experienced enough to ride a 1000cc bike? how is one meant to get that experience? :?

    Anyway, spare a thought for all those air force pilots that start in single engine planes, then get thrown into jets with not many 'step up' options in between. :D
  13. I'm fairly sure we're on the same wavelength ( need I say we need beer, a burning fire, and wilson? :) ), but your comment about not riding a 1000cc sports bike threw me. Surely, after 26 yrs of riding you'd have the sense of mind to ride a 1000cc sports bike to your limit, and not to the bikes limit - just as you do with a 1400cc

    I think it's your last comment above that I quoted thats the most important. It's not the type or capacity of bike a person chooses to ride or upgrade too, but mostly the experience and maturity they have in riding it.

    With your friends example, they will just as easily hurt themselves with a SV650 as they would with a GSX6, if they don't ride either of them within their own ability and riding sense.
  14. im still on my p's. i will move up to a bigger bike when i finally master my 250cc. ive been riding for 2 years, on a variety of bikes, and i am quiet comfortable on a 2fiddy. most capacity bikes like such are still quite capable of highway speeds, and still a lotta poke to go. i wouldnt dream of hopping on a bigger capacity bike until i finally master my cornering techniques etc...
  15. Sir Skuffy's sentiment is spot on here. 8)

    You can pick the guy who hasn't been restricted to a 250 for 15 months for a while though (if ever) :D

    100% correct here if the reason for the upgrade is so you can try to emulate Rossi through the Spur. I would however suggest that a large percentage of upgrading riders just wan't a more comfortable, newer and better maintaned bike and that they are never ever going to try to ride near it's "deserved potential". I personally feel much safer on by 03 1000cc Storm than my 91 250cc Across. I don't ride this bike anywhere near what it is capable of and if I do I'll explore that aspect of it at the "relative" safety of a track.

    I believe the size of the bike is irrelevant if the rider has an out of control attitude or grossly inflated opionion of their own ability.

    Good post Sir Skuffy and just as relevant for the 20yo coming off P plates in the car and looking for their first modified V8 or tricked up turbo.
  16. so maybe the issue is maturity rather than ability? To be able to resist the urge to wind it without knowing the result?

    If that is the case, then I can think of a whole stack of reasons why certain people shouldn't upgrade to a big bike, and why girls get better insurance rates/ :D
  17. Most laws governing restrictions on motorcycle "cc" or "power to weight" are ( imho ) for the lowest common denominator amongst us.
    So even if we believe that we should be able to get onto a larger bike etc we are in fact stopping some other lesser skilled rider from "possibly" injuring themselves or others. Like it or lump it we're stuck with it .
    Thats my two bob.

    cheers Michael

    P.S. have a great day , it's a nice one for a spin. :)
  18. Ashes has said it perfectly

    Have a great day all
  19. Ashes comments are spot on. I want a bigger bike for the comfort factor, and will never ride any bike to it's full potential. The way I see it, if you ride a bike to it's full potential you are on the edge of life, unless your'e on the track.
  20. I'm on the ZZR250 till January. After that I can upgrade to anything I want. I'm thinking (although haven't ridden) that the GSX750F would be a good bike for me.

    But I may be not experienced enough to go from a 250 to a 750. Should I not consider perhaps anything more than a 500 ???

    ps/ I think an R6 would blow the wheels off the GSX750F ;)