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Bicycles slow traffic and so increase CO2 emissions

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by cjvfr, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. "In a report by the European Cycling Federation, they show Bicycle CO2 emissions to be around 16g CO2/Km. The report however fails to recognise that in some countries, Bicycles cause traffic slow down. For example in hilly, Sydney, Australia cyclists can be found slowing traffic during peak traffic hours by consuming a whole traffic lane to themselves. Drivers will often experience a delay of at least 1 minute trying to navigate past the cyclist into another lane.



    If the average passenger vehicle produces around 6g CO2/minute when just idling — if 100 cars are delayed 1 minute by the cyclist, the additional, indirect CO2 production adds 600g of CO2 to their 16g CO2/KM.

    In some countries, cycling may be causing excessive CO2 emissions rather than reducing them."
     
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  2. Is this the find and quote the most insanely stupid logic thread?
     
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  3. Not only that, unattributed quotes...
     
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  4. Source please.
     
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  5. Perhaps to elicit some discussion on public transport policy. It makes little sense to narrow road lanes to allow bike lanes if the end result is a worse environmental outcome. Here in Melbourne many inner city councils have caused traffic mayhem by ill thought out, but socially fashionable policies. Calls for specialist bike traffic lights and marshaling boxes at lights fail to holistically review the problem.

    You have a science background, is there anything wrong in considering problems in their entirety? :)

    Alright Pat I admit the source is soft, it is an unattributed Slashdot post, I meant t only as a conversation starter. But that does not negate the point that engines work more efficiently at constant velocities. The acceleration process is the time that produces the most particulate and emission gases.

    I am saying a policy that keeps vehicles of widely different speeds separated is a more environmentally sustainable one. If you want to make bicycle/pedestrian only zones the do it but you need to improve flows in parallel routes to compensate.
     
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  6. In a report by the European Cycling Federation, they show Bicycle CO2 emissions to be around 16g CO2/Km. The report however fails to recognise that in some countries, Bicycles cause traffic slow down. For example in hilly, Sydney, Australia cyclists can be found slowing traffic during peak traffic hours by consuming a whole traffic lane to themselves [citation needed]. Drivers will often experience a delay of at least 1 minute trying to navigate past the cyclist into another lane [citation needed].

    If the average passenger vehicle produces around 6g CO2/minute when just idling [citation needed] — if 100 cars [citation needed] are delayed 1 minute by the cyclist, the additional, indirect CO2 production adds 600g of CO2 to their 16g CO2/KM.

    In some countries [which ones?], cycling may be [weasel words] causing excessive CO2 emissions rather than reducing them.

    A Slashdot Comment: The Paragon of Truth and Enlightenment!
     
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  7. Come on. I know cyclists are Satan reincarnated, but I've never seen a cyclist taking up a lane like this. If cagers aren't capable of coping with anything on two wheels, then maybe they're needing a reduction in their CO footprint. Less cagers, less CO emissions, works just as well.
     
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  8. And your introduction to the topic you wish to discuss seem about as far from each other as imaginable.

    But if a Council decides to remove a lane from an already congested Street to accomodate a cycle path then this is not a problem brought about by cycle paths but by incredibly poor planning.
     
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  9. The council has reduced the carrying capacity of that road. Yes it may be poor planning, by that council, by the surrounding councils that have feed routes, or the state government planning structure for residential suburbs. Compounding the problem by reducing carrying capacity does not strike me as an intelligent response.
     
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  10. No obviously not. Carrying capacity of busy roads should definitely not be fcuked with.
     
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  11. Stuff it remove all extra lanes for those in eastern states. Then they'll have to leave a .000000001 second gap. The bonus will be we will remove them from society on a regular basis
     
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  12. Bugga! :(

    Now you tell me.

    The acceleration bit is the bit I REALLY like. :)
     
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  13. Surely the original complaint - bikes on the road slowing down cars and thus increasing the cars' CO2 emissions - would be addressed by adding bicycle lanes, thus allowing bikes to travel alongside cars? Personally, I love the inner city bike lanes and would like to see more of them. Especially if we could also get the laws changed so that motorbikes could use them if they didn't get in the way of cyclists.

    More than that, in peak hours in the inner suburbs, I'm not sure that cyclists really do slow down cars - when traffic is moving slowly, it's not too hard to outpace them on a pushie. Cars simply make no sense in congested, urban areas.
     
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  14. To repeat what has been said above, it's not the bikes themselves that slow other traffic (and increase emissions) it's the removal of lanes for the exclusive use of cyclists
    Witness Lonsdale st in Melb CBD which never had congestion until the cycle lanes were installed but is gridlocked now. And carries an average of one bicycle per hour.
     
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  15. Hang on, you can't even blame the bicycle lane for this. As I remember, when the toll roads were first brought in, not enough people were using them, so the council reduced the lanes on a number of alternative routes to force people into the toll road. Corruption in office is what created much of Melbourne's congestion problems.
     
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  16. That has been true in regard to toll roads, but the word 'corruption' is subjective here. Govt policy was to promote the use of toll roads. Traders wanted to maintain parking. Now, council policy is to aggressively promote cycling and just as aggressively discourage cars. It's an idealogical position, the net result in not their concern.
     
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