Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

VIC Bicycle Lanes - time for Awareness Ride?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by jdkarmch, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. Thousands of motorcycles and scooters using bicycle lanes risk an $85 fine, without a bicycle/PTW accident having ever been recorded. Would you support an Awareness Ride to highlight this inequity?

    The issue is - if the fine is based on Safety, then there should be a factual basis for that law to exist - thus, the inequity.

    MRA is trying to work out where to take this debate. There is a lot of "strong feelings" on the subject, but that's all it seems to be - feelings. Yet, without any accident history - riders continue to be stopped by the police and booked for being in a bicycle lane - even when there isn't a bicycle anywhere in sight.

    While MRA has not supported going down this path recently, it may be warranted - if there are numbers to support it. But - it would be a disciplined ride, not on bicycle lanes to highlight the issue and draw media attention to our plight.

    To recap on the MRA position:

    MRA(Vic), VACC and MA are working closely on this matter. MRA is also going to seek involvement by the Scooter Federation.

    One idea in train is to hold a Press Conference at dangerous location as cited in the media release.

  2. I want to see change, but I voted no. I'll explain why:

    If you get a moderate turnout but don't block a bike lane, all you will do is provide evidence that you don't really need access to the lanes.
    If you do block the lanes you will get a massive negative response from the very vocal cycle lobby, who will then be easily able to paint you as dangerous hooligans. The government will back the cyclists and the public probably will too.

    The issue needs to be about safety, not convenience. The government can't continue to say that it is protecting cyclists by giving them a safe space option but then further endanger others by forbidding it to PTWs. It's totally illogical and irresponsible.

    I'm in favour of a press conference approach. I've mentioned Brunswick st and Johnson st in the other thread as a dangerous location but you may know a better one.

    Keep trying to be inclusive with cyclists. It will win you friends even if Harry Barber isn't one of them.
  3. depends if its as half arsed as the east link one.
  4. Thanks Titus. that is good feedback. I agree a Press Conference is probably the better way to go.

    Its always a problem to muster numbers - and a Press Conference with a few bikes is easier to organize and less stressful for Joe Public.

    BTW - can you advise how we could foster better relations with bicycle riders?
  5. The eastlink one wasn't organised by the MRA. :p

    Actually it would be more along the lines of a road space awareness ride - probably closer in concept to the one about the "lane splitting" ban proposals from the ATC that was held on the Eastern Freeway some years ago.

    In reality, it's not so much about bicycle lanes, per se. as it is about a fair and equitable share of road space and recognition of the fact that powered two wheelers have their own unique characteristics. Inappropriate bicycle lanes are a symptom of poor planning.

    I believe that many bicycle lanes were not put up to resolve an particular safety issue - they were put up as a kneejerk reaction without planning or without consultation with road users. Now, of course, it's going to be far more difficult for government to fix the areas where they have stuffed up without a very vocal and dramatic response from the feral segments of the bicycle lobby.

    The unique characteristics of bicycles, trucks, trams etc are recognised and allowed for - both from a safety point of view and from a transport perspective. Powered two wheelers are still not recognised except as a problem.

    We had hoped that this was changing - The powered two wheeler transport and safety strategy put to VMAC over six months ago was excellent (not perfect but well thought out, comprehensive and setting a template for the rest of the country to follow).

    It was due to be released in the first quarter of 2009 and the rider and industry representatives on VMAC were enthusiastic about it. However half a year later we are still waiting and Ithere is concern that it may have been hacked about with in the interim and some of the postive detail watered down or removed by the anti-motorcycle groups within the various agencies involved.

    Paradoxically the one agency that is not "anti-motorcycle" in that sense is VicPol - the commmunity policing strategy seems to be working. Certainly there have been far fewer complaints about unreasonable behaviour (by riders and by police) and there are encouraging signs that it is having an effect.
  6. Lobby for more bike lanes. But only so long as motorcyclists can use them, of course.
    Repeatedly assure them that motorcyclists are not a threat and don't want to restrict their rights.
    Remind them that motorcyclists are more vulnerable (statistically) than they are.
    Offer to go for a bicycle ride with Harry Barber :LOL: (no, I'm joking on that one).

    Edit: Bloody hell - why didn't I think of this before: tell 'em to watch the Tour de France FFS!!!
    What will they see? cycles and motorbikes riding side by side with pretty much no issues whatsoever. Could you possibly want a better example of how we can benefit each other???
  7. the indians/taxi drivers.

    if we got on their side after the TNMR they could have us riding in bike lanes all we want.

    they know how to stage a protest
  8. And "Around the Bay in a Day" and other rides they do all have motorcycle marshals assisting...
  9. Hmmm. This time around I am likely to be a motorcycle marshal on the ATB. Hmmmm if you hold a protest I might turn up on pushie in lycra and see what happens. Might be instrumental in making up my mind on this issue
  10. Great - we might need a ritual sacrifice to get things moving... :p :LOL:
  11. Yeah that would probably make up my mind? Shall I come armed?
  12. What a great media opportunity that would make - to have motorcycle riders and bicycle riders standing together shaking hands.

    Now that would really upset my friend Mr Barber.

    Percrime, you want to set that one up with us? You the bicycle rider and we'll find a hairy biker (not me - but I've got one in mind).

    I've got the camera.....ready.
  13. In that case he'd better hide his face or he really will be burnt at the stake by the Holy Church of the Latter Day Cyclists... :LOL:

    You're bad enough John - but he'd be regarded as an apostate by some. :p
  14. PTW And Bike lanes.
    It’s an interesting conundrum.
    Personally I see no problem with the idea of us using lanes, except for one problem.
    I have seen to many F#$kwits almost collect cyclists because they are using them dangerously.
    I agree that a media presence is better than any sort of “Ride†but I am not sure if we should be pushing for it. Not because I don’t like the Idea, but because I think some moron will screw it up for everybody if we get it.
  15. If the current debate I've been having on BV is anything to go by, chicken little syndrome is alive and well.

    The objections were primarily around perceived reduction in safety - however almost every rebuttal was ignored or sidestepped and the driving forces, i.e., concerns about MC riders being vulnerable in peak hour traffic was roundly poo-pooed.

    The prime objections were all chicken little syndrome IMO. If big bad petrol driven bikers are allowed into the bike lanes, cyclists will be be blown off the roads, intimidated, mowed down and worst of all, noob riders will not uptake cycling because of the perceived extra risk imposed by motorcycle riders.

    Cyclists plainly don't trust riders. Full stop.

    There were some spurious objections related to bicycles being more manoeverable than motorbikes, therefore having their progress hindered by fat motorcycles at pinch points in the bike lane...

    I am partial to the manouverability description though since pedal power can be quite mobile... but seriously, the objections are about the worst of the worst imagined possibilities being ramped up to everyday occurrences and frankly this leaves cyclists cold.

    Common enemy argument drew serious flack too... :? *shakes head*

    It's an uphill battle that's for sure.

    I think the tack taken by the media release, where bike lanes endanger PTW's is the right tack to take at this stage of the process.

    Who's using what dangerously? Cyclists using their bikes dangerously, or riders using their bikes dangerously? And where have you seen this behaviour?
  16. And this statement underlies the problem.

    There are no facts to demonstrate that PTW are using them dangerously. There have been no recorded accidents. Get it? None. No evidence. This statement is a myth and a lie! Perpetuated in the minds of cyclists?

    Evidence - Give me the evidence. There is none to justify the existence of the law - as it relates to PTW.

    Define "using them dangerously". Don't you really mean "using them unlawfully". Just using them, if we agree with the law, means that they are being used dangerously. You get fined for being in a lane - even when there is no bicycle anywhere in sight - because the law says so - that's a crock....

    The argument is purely territorial. Its based on a fear that they will somehow lose control. FFS what kind of world is it that we live in?

    Rob - you have hit the nail right on the head - Chicken Little syndrome.
  17. They do when it suits them!

    The argument that it is dangerous is refuted on SBS2 every night this week.

    FL, your experience may be correct for you, but there is not a shred of evidence to support it in the wider community.
  18. I'm not victorian, but i'm confused as to why you are so adamant that you want to use the bike lanes? The big safety issue seems to be with the tram tracks being a slippery unsafe surface..... :?

    btw, cyclist and PTW riders do have accidents....a friend of mine was hit by a scooter while riding his bike a few months back....he was riding along minding his own business, the scooter saw traffic banking up in front so decided to duck into the bike lane without checking his blind spot.....knocking my mate off his bike at approx 30kph causing around $3000 damage to the bike and some skin lost.
    Incidentally, the scooter rider panicked in trying to pick his scooter up, grabbed a fist full of throttle and sent the scooter across the road damaging 2 cars in the process.
  19. Well that's the first instance I've heard... How long ago? Any chance this mate of yours is available to be chatted to? What bike lane? If your story is true, both sides of the equation might be interested in following it up.
  20. Why oh why do we have to go with this same old tired stereotype?
    We need clean cut looking biker types that look more socially acceptable in order to be taken seriously.