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N/A | National Beware of QBE Motorcycle Insurance

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by djc926, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. I would just like to let everyone know about QBE Insurance. After my claim is processed, I will be cancelling my policy with them.
    All my prior insurance companies (this is with car insurance) had a policy where you only pay excess if it's at-fault accident or any other incidents where the other at-fault party cannot be identified (including natural disasters).
    With QBE, excess applies to EVERY claim you make and you are only reimbursed if they recover the money from the other party. Why should I have to pay the bloody excess when I have provided rego details/eye witnesses/police report number? As long as I have provided details for them to start the process of recovering the money from the other party, I shouldn't have to pay excess.
    This means if the other party is broke with no money to pay, I will never get my excess reimbursed to me even though I have done nothing wrong.
    This isn't insurance. Big thumbs down to them and I will be voting with my feet. My bike will be insured with someone else from now on.

  2. I have a feeling that insurance companies ask for the excess upfront from you if the other party is not insured and if the other party has not accepted liability.
    Would be good to hear from any Members who are in the insurance industry as this can happen to anyone of us.
    It is the same with hire car companies who will always take the excess from you whether or not it was your fault and then reimburse you back if the other party or their insurance coughs up.
  3. What's the small print in your PDS say? It might be something to take to the insurance ombudsman.
  4. I'm aware that QBE do this but I still insure with them because, last time I checked, they were so much cheaper than the competition that, over a couple of crash free years, if I then make a claim and never see my excess, I'll still end up ahead.

    I am, however, terribly old and beige, so my excess isn't massive and I can afford to either kiss it goodbye or wait a couple of years for the legal processes to be concluded. YMMV.
  5. No matter whom you go to, insurance companies arn't in the business of 'paying up', be it health, car, home, bike etc.

    I see many of the cheaper insurance companies put the onus on YOU to let them know what to insure instead of the company having a policy covering many differing aspects. It's all in the wording and it can be quite ambiquous so the company can twist its meaning given the situation.
  6. The following information and views are expressed solely for the purpose of discussion, and are in no way expressed or intended to be interpreted as any advice or recommendation from the poster of this information. Readers should seek independent professional advice which takes into account your personal circumstances to see if such products are suitable for your individual needs.

    Ok, now with the disclaimer out of the way, I'm going to dissect the QBE PDS (QM838-1108) excess section for discussion. Again, this is just simply interpreting the PDS as it is, and does not take into account any endorsements/agreements which you and QBE may have in place.

    Excesses may also apply to any claim under this insurance.

    An excess is an amount you have to pay each time you make a
    claim. An excess will be applied for each accident or event where a claim is made.

    A description of excesses that may apply are detailed in Section 4 but in summary;

    • Standard bike excess - this is the first amount you have to pay
    • Age Excess - is an additional amount which applies if the rider at the time of the incident is within the age group for the specified excess
    • Undeclared rider excess – is an additional amount that applies if your bike is being ridden by a person who is not named on the schedule as a rider
    • Inexperienced rider excess – is an additional amount that applies when the rider at the time of the incident has not held an Australian Motorcycle licence for 3 or more years
    • Imposed excess – which will be shown on the schedule
    • Named rider excess – which applies when one of the riders listed on the schedule has this excess showing against their name and your bike is being ridden by that person at the time of the incident
    • Voluntary excess – is an additional amount you have elected to pay in exchange for a reduced premium
    • Theft excess – which will be shown on the schedule

    The above is just highlighting the different types of excesses available on the bike insurance policy. The important parts in context of this thread is the term "may apply" and the first point, "Standard Bike Excess"

    According to Section 4 of the PDS (page 24) : WHAT EXCESSES YOU MAY HAVE TO PAY

    An excess is the amount which you have to pay each time you make a claim. Each excess is printed on the schedule. If following an incident more than one excess applies, you will have to pay the total of all the excesses that apply to you.

    The standard bike excess is defined further as "All bikes carry a standard excess."

    Throughout the PDS, there are no references or mention of any waiver(s) of the standard bike excess for any circumstances. This ambiguously give the final decision on whether the excess is paid either by the insured or the third party, to the Insurers.

    If we strictly go off what is written (and agreed by the insured upon taking up the insurance) then it stands to reason that the insurer (QBE) can, and will apply the standard bike excess on ALL claims made on the insured vehicle. Another possible way of looking at this would be for example you initiate a claim, they charge you an upfront excess upon lodgement of the claim.. the claim then goes through the whole process of determining what happened, where, who was at fault, etc etc.. During this process, any other factors such as age, restricted riders, the root cause etc can trigger other excesses, which will be in addition to the standard bike excess.

    There is no mention of recovery action or the processes that this will entail - basically you as the insured have no idea what happens in the event the damages were not caused by you, or weren't in your control, except that.. you have agreed to pay a standard bike excess plus any other excesses that may be triggered, in the event you need to make a claim for compensation of the damages sustained to your insured vehicle.

    Suffice to say, if its not written or endorsed specifically to state that the excess will be waived in the event the insured is not at fault, then it's as good as an assumption made by the insured, and not expressly agreed by the insurer - even though this may very be their claims process, it is not guaranteed in writing based on the PDS alone - maybe it's on other documentation or the actual certificate of Insurance.

    Interestingly, while I'm at it.. in the event your bike was stolen, the standard bike excess PLUS the theft excess would apply, meaning you would theoretically be required to pay both excesses in such an instance.

    Every insurer is different, and offer varying levels of cover, which extends to the conditions of the insurance agreement they offer. Insurer ABC may charge a higher premium, but they may have lower excesses and they waive the excess in the event you are not at fault.. Insurer XYZ may offer similar premium and excess amounts; however will charge you and excess regardless of whether or not you are at fault in the event of a claim.

    Always read your PDS and terms of insurance carefully and thoroughly as some policies are intentionally worded in a way that opens up room for interpretation. The word on this PDS that gives rise to possible refund of excesses is "may" and not must. This alone can be argued should the need arise as you are entitled to know when an excess is not applicable due to the absence of the word "Must" - meaning you have to pay; however as the PDS also goes into further explanation of the standard bike excess, it states "standard bike excess which is the first amount you have to pay". This can be interpreted as being the excess applicable on all claims.

    Like I said, ambiguous.. :-s

    Copy of the QBE QM838-1108 PDS and policy wording QM838-1108 as used in the above can be found at http://www.qbe.com.au/Australia/Useful-Resources/Policy-Wordings-PDS/Insurance.html
  7. By Comparison, the AAMI policy wording for comprehensive motorcycle insurance specifically states when an excess is applicable depending on who's deemed at fault.

    Copy of AAMI policy can be found here http://www.aami.com.au/motorcycle-i...nsurance-policy/excesses-ratings-and-benefits

    or to view in full, can be found at http://www.aami.com.au/motorcycle-insurance/policy-documents
  8. A note with AAMI though, they will push for repairs to your bike to be done by their repair centres; however you will have the option of supplying several quotes for consideration. They may, upon assessment of the bike, conclude that the quotes far exceed that of what they can repair the bike for, as such you may need to make up any differences should you still chose your own repairer. Rare, but it does happen.

    Additionally, if your bike is out of manufacturer warranty, they will source recycled parts before genuine parts are considered, just like QBE; however if your bike is still within manufacturers warranty, AAMI will only used genuine parts, except for windscreens and glass (what windscreen??)

    Just highlighting some minor differences in covers provided by different insurers. Shop around, and always negotiate with the insurer to have them write in or remove certain clauses from the PDS' - they can customise the cover to a certain extent; however this usually comes at a cost (ie higher premiums). A broker can definitely have more chances at securing an endorsement on the policy; however you'll probably have to pay the broker and the insurer!

    No escape from capitalist business models...
    • Like Like x 1
  9. I have had several claims with QBE and have not found this allegation to be true. In the case when I was not at fault and the other party was insured, I paid no excess; the excess was claimed by QBE from that party. In the case where I was at fault, I paid excess. And in the case where I was not at fault I was forced to pay excess because the other party was not insured.
  10. Isn't that exactly what he said?

    He wasn't at fault but they couldn't get the money so he paid the excess...

    That's what happened when they ripped me off on my right off anyway.
  11. If you are involved in an accident where you are not at fault you can use the services of a recovery agent. In general these services are free to you as long as you are not at fault and the responsible party is insured. These agents act in your best interest. In Melbourne you might want to try a company called e- collect.
  12. If AAMI force you to take your bike to one of their repairers and you are not happy with the repairs contact IVIC in Victoria and they will sort out AAMI for you.
  13. RACV ask for the excess up front from the insured and include it in their claim against the person at fault.

    When they recover it they reimburse.

    Sounds fair to me.

  14. Thanks for that. I did the same as soon as I got off the phone with QBE and found it extremely contradictory because it says the excess applies each time you make a claim while in the paragraphs below it it uses the word "MAY", which indicates that there will be situations where it doesn't apply, however it doesn't go further into what scenarios they are or if the excess is still paid upfront and subsequently reimbursed. Furthermore, no mention of what the conditions of being eligible for the reimbursement are.

    I might also add that their gear coverage is very ambiguous as well. There is no huge damage to my gear, but given that my leather jacket and gloves are only 2 months old and well worth 600 bucks locally I am a bit peeved that a tiny bit of leather on the shoulder area has peeled off and the exterior metallic slider is scratched. small scuff on the slider and leather on the gloves also. I have called QBE to ask under what conditions they reimburse/replace for the gear damage and they asked me to send it in and if the assessor thinks they are deemed usable, they will just send it back. I asked if I can take photo of the damage and they won't accept it.
    That means as a insured party, I need to risk wasting postage to send heavy riding gears to Melbourne just to see if I can get replacements out of them.
    It's stupid that they don't have local assessor in the first place for gears.
    The chick I spoke to basically said "if you look at it and think it's still wearable and won't affect the safety in the case of another accident, just wear it". I find this very ambiguous and ridiculous. My scuffed exhaust doesn't affect the bike at all and are purely cosmetic, so why are they replacing it? Shouldn't the same apply to gears? Once again, there is nothing mentioned in the PDS about gear damage.
  15. The traditional definition of insurance is to remove/transfer the risk to another party. The determination of excess being applied should depend on whether it's an at-fault accident or not, not whether the insurance company recovers the money. Do you recall the money you pay to them each year called "insurace premium"? Would it be fair if people have been paying premium and they have an accident with a chum that has no insurance or money and now the insured party have to be out of pocket through no fault of their own? It's bad enough having to go through the repair process etc
    I don't call that fair.
    I had CGU charge me excess in the past when someone hit me and did a runner, but they did reimburse me after they got all the details of the other party from the Police, NOT when they recovered the money. Mind you, I got a call from a collection agency almost a year later asking about the acccident to help in their claim against him so they were still out of pocket after almost a year. If I was QBE, I would still have been out of pocket.
  16. I caught a guy trying to steal a car I owned years ago. He had opened the door with a filed-back screwdriver and removed the ignition barrel. I scared him off. Cops weren't very interested except to visit and then say they'd expect him back. I stayed up all night watching the car armed with a surf-ski paddle.

    Rang NRMA and the first thing they asked was "did you catch him?" Then they told me that since I couldn't identify who did the damage I wasn't covered at all (car was fully insured).

    I knew the guy that managed the main Ford repair shop and had him do the work at my expense.

    I was given the wrong info by the person at NRMA I spoke to. I should have been covered but would have needed to pay the excess (I think about $500 then).
    In the end I probably saved by getting it done myself. I got a cheaper rate of repair, saved paying the excess and saved my no claim bonus.NRMA lost my business soon thereafter.
  17. Wow, i read through that QBE PDS as well and cannot believe they do not include any instances "where an excess may not apply". Other insurer's i have been with always have this outlined.
  18. I just had another look and there is a difference with the excess issue between QBE's "standard" comprehensive cover and the Platinum policy.

    The standard has nowhere that states no excess may apply.

    The platinum cover has this under additional benefits:

    3.10 No Fault Excess

    If you have been involved in an incident with another vehicle and
    you are able to provide us with the name, address, contact details
    and licence number of the other party that allows us to pursue
    recovery and we agree that you are not at fault, we will agree to
    waive the excess on your claim.

    I'm guessing you had the "standard" and not Platinum.

    It seems absolutely ridiculous that you have to pay for a refund of excess additional benefit, when your not at fault and meet all that criteria, at a higher premium. I would think it is standard across most of the industry that the refund would apply when the criteria is met. Just WOW, did not think QBE were that bad.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Hi all,

    I am with Swan, if you can name the other person and you where not at fault then you do not have to pay the excess.

    Cheers Jeremy