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VIC Best and worst case results

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by Loz, Mar 16, 2009.

  1. So this mate of mine got busted doing a wheelie and has been charged under the hoon laws. No, it's not me, and if you do know who it is, keep yer trap shut, 'coz he's obviously asked me to make this post instead of doing it himself for a reason.

    He will go to court shortly to defend three charges:
    1. Loss of traction
    2. Improper control
    3. Careless driving

    We can debate all day about how:
    1. You need traction to pull a wheelie, not a burnout
    2. It takes a lot of "proper control" and "careful driving" to do a decent wheelie - although the wheelie in question, as I understand, was a crap one, so perhaps there's a valid point here.

    But really what he's interested in finding out is: what range of punishment can he expect for his crimes against beigeness? Does anyone know what a judge is legally obliged to hand out as a minimum fine/suspension? likewise, what's the worst that might happen?

    He has already had his bike confiscated and returned under the hilariously titled "hoon" legislation, and has learned his lesson and is really sorry. Anyone know how long he should be planning to be walking/cycling for?
  2. did he sh*t himself while doing it? Cause there would be fair argument that the loss of bowel control caused temporary involuntary right wrist movement which cause loss of road contact with the front wheel. Bit of a chicken or the egg moment really, was the wheelie happening pre or post shat-ness.

    Not sure if he's been doing wheelies for long, but on my first accidental one i very nearly shat myself.
  3. Re: (VIC) Best and worst case results - Hoon law wheelie bus

    I read that as Immoral...
  4. He can expect a 1month loss atleast. It's mandatory from what I have heard. Fines are given by the court depending on the case iirc.
  5. Speak to Matt Mingay. He was charges for doing a wheelie as well. Cop reckoned he wasn't in control of his bike.

    Matt told the judge that he was in control and he did that shit for a living.

    He got the case thrown out.
  6. #6 Chef, Mar 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2014
    With plenty of practice the pooing will eventually stop*

    *I do NOT condone wheelies

    No shit??? :LOL: How long ago did this happen?
  7. i was half expecting it to look something like this Mr Chef :LOL:

  8. loss of traction will mean the front wheel lost contact with the road.
    To get rid of that one you would have to remove the 'deliberate' loss of traction... so unless he did it accidentally he's got buckleys.
    I'm not sure about minimum license loss etc.
  9. kenny_wideweb__470x315,0.

    "Thash a good point, thish guy knows hish stuff"
  10. At one of my previous employers, my head manager was a professional witness for various things computing related and took an interest in many things legal. When he spoke about various legal outcomes I generally trusted his word. When he heard about me having a bike of course out came all the interesting tidbits and stories of successful defenses and in court for various "crimes".

    One story he related to me was of an individual who had pulled a wheelie for about 1km down the road and was picked up and put in front of the court for "failing to maintain control". The magistrate thought that anyone maintaining control of a wheelie for 1km demonstrated someone in complete control of their vehicle, and so dismissed the charge. As a result of a number of such successful defenses police now, as a habit, will charge you with multiple things in order to get at least one of them to stick.

    The "loss of traction" relates to the front wheel leaving the road. When it's off the road, it has no traction, and the law here dictates that all of a vehicle's wheel must remain in contact with the road. One could perhaps argue that even during a burnout that there is still plenty of traction (the vehicle is still accelerating so therefore traction must be occurring), but in the case of a wheelie that clearly doesn't apply.

    Improper control sounds like an expanded definition to cover the old "failure to control" loop-hole.

    Careless driving is going to be the nasty one. If you get nailed with that, the range of penalties is quite large. It's up to the officer to prove that you were being careless though. Pulling a wheelie on a deserted street with no other vehicles around, and no pedestrians about could be argued to be taking reasonable care, as in the rider was trying to ensure that no one else would be involved. If the rider pulled a wheelie in the city suburban area then that defense is not really going to wash unless it was a deserted industrial park on the weekend.

    Kinda vague, but these things usually are. At the end of the day it all comes down to the judge, the rider and how well they present themselves, and where the offense took place and how determined the officer is to ham it up as if the rider was kicking children in the head while wheelying through an active school crossing, or whatever.

    Looking through the legislation:

    1 penalty unit = ~$110 or so.

    Wheelie/Loss of Traction = Up to 5 penalty units ($550). No mention of license suspension
    Improper Control = Up to 5 penalty units ($550)
    Careless Driving = Up to 12 penalty units ($1320). No mention of license suspension

    It's a bit odd, 'cos near as I can tell, Improper Control and Loss of Traction both fall under rule 65A "Improper Use Of Vehicle".
  11. Was it a long prolonged wheelie, or one that could be dismissed as an up and down? If it was short, use my situation below as an explanation.

    I came out of pit lane at PI a couple of months back and unknown to me, hit the kill switch, bike was dieing, I didn't know why, was giving it handfulls to try to get it to go, then suddenly realised what had happened.

    Left side of brain didn't communicate very well with right side and I flicked the switch just as I gave it another handfull! Up she went!

    Alternately, take a stunting video and ask if they are in control or not?

    Good luck to whoever it is!
  12. Hmmmm, now I'm thinking of devising an electronic wheelie button, based on this principle.
  13. Tell him to carefully consider where this happened. He may have just been accelerating, if the bike was to hit a dip in the road, or even a slight crest, this can cause small, and sometimes, if unlucky enough to be changing gears at the same moment in time, large wheelstands. This would therefore be a problem of the local council possibly having not maintained the road to a safe degree? Clutching at straws? what else has your mate got?
  14. Gee they've really narrowed it down.

    I don't like the concept of 'loss of traction'. I frequently chirp the wheels a bit. If I come across a hazard on the road in a car, one of the wheels will probably 'loose traction' as I come to a sudden halt. However in a wheelie you're not 'using' the front wheel. So its a bit pointless to argue whether or not it has traction - there's no weight on it. The bike still has the same amount of traction due to the weight transfer. Duh?

    'Improper' control sounds like a bit of a weasel word. You are still controlling the vehicle, but incorrectly? Man, that could encompass pretty much anything from left-foot braking to palming the steering wheel.

    I also don't like the concept of calling these laws 'anti-hoon' laws. It unfairly demonises the accused, and paints a pretty one sided picture using colloquialisms.
  15. Fail.
  16. aV98C5i-820fdbf3cf9d42ac60ac531d8f0f5ec5.

    ISCN posted this into another thread a couple of weeks ago and i'm guessing it relates to the above infringement as well.
    I don't the mean the speed, acceleration part that's highlighted, but the bit that comes just underneath it.

    I have no idea where he got it from, but hopefully he'll come along and fill us in.
  17. this one chef?
    I get no image in your post?!
  18. Perhaps not "Chicks Dig Scars", though.
  19. #19 Chef, Mar 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2014
    Thanks mate yeah. That's strange because it showed up in mine.
  20. Thanks folks, the individual in question is watching this thread with interest and thanks you for your replies. Except you Cheffie, he says you sound like a knob.
    • Funny Funny x 1