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Ban the dole for under 30's?

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by Tweetster, Apr 21, 2010.

  1. Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has proposed banning the dole for young people in a bid to fill the massive skills shortages in the resources sector.

    ....source here:
    http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/7088588/abbott-proposes-dole-ban-for-under-30s/

    Interesting proposal, but not sure whether it will produce the desired results!


     
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  2. The resource sector is importing skilled migrants and cutting the dole is going to help how?

    Surely the problem lies not with those people on the dole but with the companies who'd rather not train Australians.
     
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  3. Well, under 30s with poor education can then turn to crime to survive (like the US), stab and bash large numbers of people to death in the process, thereby alleviating population pressures and the housing crisis :)
     
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  4. Maybe if everyone didn't want to dash off to UNI, then there would be more skilled workers available here...
     
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  5. i am curious about the finer details of the scheme, if you are qualified (and lose your job) are you still required to go, ie chances of finding work back in the city will be slim if you are out west/north.

    For long time unemployed i don't mind the idea, but then i would rather see a system that you can only claim benefits from what you have paid in tax over a working time+maybe 50% on top of that for those that haven't been working long, ie it covers honest working people who lose jobs, but doesn't reward those that just cbf working.
     
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  6. I wonder if Abbot even knows what the dole is :-s
    There needs to majour training programs in place for this to even have a chance of working... and I'm just going to quote the union guy from the article because I can't think of anything else forum friendly to say;
     
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  7. Some of the problem lies with people who won't take what work is available, and no I'm not talking about fruit picking or similar seasonal stuff.

    There is a huge shortage of bus drivers in the bus industry and despite advertising campaigns, incentive schemes and subsidized/free training being available applicants for positions just aren't there.

    Excuses for not wanting to be a bus driver that I've heard personally are many but include -:

    I don't want to work weekends.
    I don't want to work evenings.
    I don't want to work early mornings.
    I don't want to work public holidays.
    I don't want to drive a school bus, I want to drive a coach.
    I don't want a job where I'm away from home overnight.
    The award wage is how much? I want $XXXX
    I don't want to have to collect money from people.

    I could go on but you get the picture, people have unrealistic expectations of what job conditions, times of work and pay rates.

    Would I cancel the dole for under 30's as a blanket rule?

    No, but refusing a job offer should be grounds for cancellation.
     
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  8. I thought it already was? I'm sure that's one of the conditions of my newstart allowance at least. And I agree with you, if someone offers me work then I will bloody take it!
     
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  9. Really?
     
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  10. Yes..
     
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  11. How did we end up in a situation where the leaders of both major political parties are complete loons?
    Do I have to vote green at the next federal election, safe in the knowledge of exactly what sort of loon I will thereby get?
     
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  12. Please elaborate then because that's not what really happens.
     
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  13. Why not...
     
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  14. For what it's worth, and I'm not an expert etc etc.

    The skill shortages here and abroad seem to me to coincide with the whole you can be what ever you want aspirational "thingy".

    Ok so I'm an old bastard and not from here, but when I left school the carrers advice wasn't so where do you want study it was do you want to be a bricklayer or a carpenter...

    OK so I'm now sounding like a when I was a lad geeza, but I see loads of people being sent though the system doing degrees in something pretty pointless that at the end of the day they aren't actually any good at. Whereas in past times they'd get a job in some kind of trade etc and if they were any good they'd more on and progress, what we have is lots of mediocre graduates and no skilled workers...

    As I see it work and skills are being denigrated, and every man and his dog wants to go to UNI...

    I used to want my kids to go to uni, but the more I think about it what's a better life to be a crap accountant or a shit hot plumber???
     
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  15. How so? You are voting for a minority party which means they will give their votes to whomever they are sided with. End of the day, your vote is going to one of the major parties (this is my understanding)
     
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  16. End the dole? hmmmm not sure of the soundness of that idea and that's come from someone who has never claimed the dole or any other benefits from the gubberment. I am also in the position that I miss out on most of the middle class welfare that exists, so based on that most people would assume I would agree with Abbot, but I don't.

    What we should do is revisit a scheme in the early '80s that encouraged companies to take on staff by subsidising employment. Why not say to people, go work in the mines and you will get X benefits? X could be anything from money to training etc.
     
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  17. Abbott has just grabbed the clieche the middle right voter want to here. Sure there are people on the dole that should have a job, but the generalisation isn't the the reality for the majority. It's a complicated problem and yes pressure should be brought to bare to get people back to work, but Abbott is once again demonstrating he is out of his league and will say what he thinks wins votes rather than reflecting any sort of substantial policy.
     
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  18. I knew that that was the best argument you could put up when making an unsubstantiated comment.

    But in response to your subsequent post not everyone wants to go to uni, being in the education system many jobs require a higher school certificate only.
    Only 30% of high school finishers move onto university, a further amount move onto further education (not UNI)
    The problem with skilled labour was that in the 80's the governments of the day closed or amalgamated technical schools where students who were not academically inclined went on to learn a trade or gain an apprenticeship, this was made worse in the 90's when the then state government closed many apprentice type programs.
    In the end many people were only left with the option of finding service based work which is the main employ of non uni school leavers or go onto University.
    Schools that do try and cater for students who want to get in a trade through the vcal system are hopelessly underfunded so those student are once again left in the lurch.
    In order to rectify this issue there must be more apprenticeships available.
     
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  19. I wasn't old enough to go to tech schools, but we did have one in the town that I grow up in. It later got merged with the main high school.

    They still kept a fair bit of the tech like classes going, which I think is a good thing. But the issue is that with the system that was and probably still is in place is all the people (to use smees wording) who are not academically inclined are still forced to go through subjects that are not relevant to what they are doing.
    Teachers also seem to shun the idea of a trade compared to a white collar job.

    I really to reckon that tech / trade schools are a great idea as they can give a more appropriate education to the people that want to go down that path.

    Dropping the dole altogether is just a terrible idea though. I think that making it harder to stay on the dole for a long period of time would be a better option. But that still doesn't achieve what Abbot is trying to do.
     
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  20. I am definately not an expert on much of anything, but having been on the dole for a short period, at least I can lay claim to a limited knowledge of how it doesn't work.

    After working consistantly for over 40 yrs, and through ill health and personal choices I found myself at the Dole office. Not something to be relished for a bloke who has prided himself on never taking a hand out!

    Almost 3hrs later I find out that as I don't have a passport (lost and reported stolen) it will cost me a further $100 to get a "Certificate of Residency" from the Department of Immigration. 8 days to get a certificate, and it will be almost 4 weeks before I see a payment. I found work 2 days before my payment arrived, not through the goverments bullshit employment scheme, which seems to only find employment for the lazy bastards they employ in their Job Seeker office's, but by knocking on doors and handing out resumes.

    anyway rant over,
    should the dole be abolished? NO!
    should we find better ways of utilising the unemployed? YES

    Footnote... Once again fully employed and in a position of interviewing prospective employees, perhaps the goverment should look at training people in how to go for a job interview.....

    I employ Stores people, and I wan't even interview juniors anymore, it's not worth the hassle of trying to explain to them why they can't have their IPod's on while their working or why it's company policy to switch off mobiles while on the factory floor, and don't even start me on attendance and time keeping.. piss poor at best.



    Jeff
     
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