Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Back wheel slide

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' at netrider.net.au started by Guru, Sep 15, 2008.

  1. Riding today at night (dont think dampness from dew on the road played a part) I was in the process of missing a left turn I had to make, so I grabbed the brakes, pulled the clutch in and started turning to the left, when the back wheel slid out from under me. I didnt quite know what the hell was going on until I saw myself moving diagonally. Luckily I regained balance and went on my merry way with no harm done.

    So now, why would a hard break cause the back wheel to slide out on a dry road. Was it because of the turned handle bars? It actually felt like a forced skid that you do on your push bikes on gravel by grabbing the back breaks and turning. So is this what happened in essence?



    Also, would the chances of sliding, skidding sideways have been reduced if the clutch was not pulled in and there was still drive to the back wheel?

    What would be the safest way to still make a turn you almost missed without such events happening (the safest way besides missing it and turning around a simply coming back lol)

    Any insights would be great :)
     
     Top
  2. Typical panic response did you stand on the rear brake to hard? That is most likely. This is a good learning experience for you and others reading (Rob will be on this like a fat kid on the last smarty on earth). This is most likely just improper rear brake use and where it will get you into trouble. If you let the rear get out of line to far and then let off the rear brake you have the classic hi-side. The other option is you snatched the front brake and turned the wheel at the same time which will lift (or at least un-weight) the rear and bring it around on you so fast that you are unlikely to save it even if you are good. Front brake is your powerful tool when you want to slow down or stop but new riders should use it when the bars are straight, unless it is an emergency and then only very gently if your bars are turned. Even smooth front brake application if it is firm is likely to cause a front end washout if you have the bars turned. The same goes for the rear brake in a turn, it will wash the rear out if applied to hard in a turn. So your only option is to brake (letting the brake off smoothly), then turn the bike if you can make the corner. If the rear locks I like to keep it locked until the bike is straight again, then let the rear brake off.

    N.B Aways check your mirrors before you brake hard!
     
     Top
  3. What Blue said.

    Changing from car to bike I was finding myself using too much foot pressure on the rear brake in quick stop situations, and sliding the back out.

    To remind myself to use the front brake properly I "cover" the lever with my fingers, same as with the clutch, until I am settled into riding mode again.
     
     Top
  4. Yes.

    If you stamp the back break, it will lock and therefore slide a bit. Or if theres oil you cant see and other variables, but given your inexperience I'm going to blame you, as you should too, to learn lessons :D
     
     Top
  5. dont miss turns and then you will be sweet. as everyone else said.. jumping on everything will make it interesting but you're still here so all good.
     
     Top
  6. Turning in + braking hard = rear wheel slide.
     
     Top
  7. mcdonald-large-kid-750701.
    Blue, try "mcdonalds" instead :rofl:


    :tantrum: Stop abusing the back brake!! Those poor back brakes, they're misundstood and ignored and abused... think about the poor little back brake!! Must we wait till a brake dies before we act??? Why are you so cruel?? What did the brake do to you? Where's your heart?

    :LOL:


    Hey Guru, how long can you balance your bike (when you're sitting on the bike in riding position) before it falls to one side or the other when standing still?

    The spinning rear wheel gives your bike stability. Stop it spinning and you only pretty much have balance left keeping you up. The bike starts to "fall" and the rear will step out as a result.

    Why are you stomping on the rear anyway? Do that mid corner and you're toast.
     
     Top
  8. To answer your last question - if I was about to miss a turnoff and it was safe to slow down and complete the turn... (obviously if there's someone behind you, or if you really are going too fast, you'd abort the turn and keep going straight)

    I would brake firmly in a straight line, with the bike upright - you can rapidly shed some speed in this fashion. Bleed off as much speed as necessary, gently release the brakes, make the turn.

    It would be, in effect, a "late apex" turn - delaying the turn in to allow the brakes to wash off as much speed as necessary.

    I haven't observed your riding since the Macquarie Pass trip, but throughout the day hornet900 and I observed that you consistently turn in very early. In a panic situation, ("I'm not going to make it!") the brain wants to initiate the turn even earlier still, causing the bike to run wide.

    Pq1yY169.

    Staying wide and tipping in late buys you a little bit more braking time. :)
    (And lets you get on the throttle sooner, for a faster corner exit speed, but that's beside the point)
     
     Top
  9. Spots - way to go with the illustrations mate. :) That was awesome!
     
     Top
  10. this reminds me of a question i meant to ask.

    I use my rear brake very very rarely. i know to use it for slow speed maneuvering and that it comes into play for ebraking but is just not on my mental radar yet (i'm forcing myself to learn).

    are there any serious consequences of this?
     
     Top
  11. what? of not using rear brake??
     
     Top
  12. yea pretty much.

    stupid question?
     
     Top
  13. you may want to give it a go from time to time. can be your friend
     
     Top
  14. If you use the rear brake as you described then I can't see any serious consequences.
     
     Top
  15. As I understand it rear brake supplies about 20% of your overall capability. Excluding it from your everyday riding means you have 20% less stopping capability.
     
     Top
  16. like i said, i'm training myself to use it more and more. thanks!
     
     Top
  17. As a generalisation, yah.

    I'd say "probably closer to 10%", but it depends on the bike, weather conditions, road conditions, phase of the moon and the poster's own belief in statistical guesswork, and heading any further down that path of discussion will result in this thread becoming a 14 page monster. :LOL:
     
     Top
  18. :popcorn:
    c'monnn. :LOL:
     
     Top
  19. Read the heading and immediately thought "Rob will sort this"

    Hey nice colouring in Spots. You obviously have a great set of crayons.
     
     Top
  20. I love locking the rear while travelling in a straight line. It makes me feel dorifuto :LOL:
     
     Top