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Another one for the Aviation buffs

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Justus, Jan 25, 2011.

  1. Pilot typos behind string of take-off mishaps

    * Crew, pilot errors behind many accidents
    * Simple data calculations and errors common

    AIRLINE crew errors are a leading cause of take-off accidents and incidents, according to air safety investigators.

    An Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATS8) report said mistakes made by pilots and crew worldwide have lead to near-misses and even death.
    The safety regulators analysed 20 international and 11 Australian take-off accidents and incidents between 1989 and June 2009 involving incorrect
    flight data.

    It found that the most common contributing safety factor was crew error (39 per cent), leading to a range of consequences, including one incident
    in Melbourne where a plane suffered substantial damage from a tail-strike.

    “There have been numerous take-off accidents worldwide that were the result of a simple data calculation or entry error by the flight crew,” the
    ATSB report stated.

    In Australian the most common mistakes involved pilots and crew entering the wrong takeoff speed, followed by the incorrect aircraft weight and
    wrong temperature. The result of these errors ranged from a noticeable reduction in the aircraft's performance during take-off, to the aircraft being
    destroyed and loss of life.

    In one case a pilot from an overseas airline entered a figure 100,000 kilograms below the aircraft's actual weight, leading to a tail strike at Melbourne
    Airport in 2009.

    Meanwhile, seven air crew were killed in 2004 when their MK Airlines Boeing 747 cargo jet departing from Halifax, Canada, struggled to get airborne
    and hit a runway embankment. The plane's take-off weight was entered as approximately 240,000kg instead of its real weight of approximately

    Investigators also cited a Texas study of 4800 flights that found a quarter of pilots' errors were made before takeoff.

    Pilot and ground crew error, time pressure, fatigue, distraction, poor system design, bad procedures, a lack of reference material and poor training
    were cited as key factors leading to these types of mistakes.

    The report emphasised how critical the take-off phase of a flight is, with statistics between 2000 and 2009 showing that 12 per cent of fatal accidents
    occurred during take-off. This is despite the take-off phase accounting for approximately just one per cent of the total flight time.

    “Despite advanced aircraft systems and robust operating procedures, accidents continue to occur during the take-off phase of flight,” the report said.

    “The takeoff is recognised as one of the most, if not the most, critical stage of flight, as there is limited time and options available to the flight crew for
    managing abnormal situation such as insufficient airspeed.”

    The ATSB says that while these incidents will keep occurring due to human nature, airlines need to take action wherever possible to avoid mistakes.

    Link: http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/...es/story-e6frfq80-1225994280914#ixzz1C27d5i5a

    Seven air crew were killed in 2004 when their MK Airlines Boeing 747 cargo jet suffered a tail-strike. Picture: ATSB

    Attached Files:

  2. Meh, they still do a better job than I would if someone was stupid enough to give me the keys to a plane.
  3. Surely these inputs have to be confirmed by another crew member? Nick?
  4. One thing I wish to reiterate is that Pilots are HUMAN ! We ALL make mistakes. Unfortunately, the implications of an aircraft disaster are far more complex and tragic, based on the amount of lives at risk at any one time.

    We have received fairly complex reviews on the aircraft incident in Melbourne some time ago. There are generally checklists in place and crosschecking to ensure that mistakes of a severe nature are not missed at any stage. I am not in a position to comment on what the exact cause of the incident was but rest assured necessary steps (as always) have been implemented to further enhance the ability for extreme one off mishaps to be detected before a critical stage is reached.
    Under the circumstances, the crew of that aircraft were very proficient, despite a vital error during pre-flight preparation, to have gotten the aircraft airborne, which was otherwise on a collision course, resulting in certain death to most if not all on board. Despite their mistake, in my eyes they are HEROES for getting that bird in the air !

    Sadly, the investigation reports, and more so the Media (who have attacked a major Australian carrier to ridiculous levels..again, I will not comment) have a fantastic way of sensationalising every bit of news relating to Aviation and not reflecting on the positive aspects/immense skill levels in avoiding a major catastrophe or praising flight crew, who are often underestimated by the general public.

    The general public also doesn't understand, nor are made aware, of the high stresses flight crew are subjected to. Rosters are becoming busier, with modern aircraft becoming further enhanced and capable of further range, this results in longer working hours for Pilots (and flight attendants). Fatigue, whilst not advocating this as the cause in the above 2 instances in any way, is a very REAL factor in the daily life of an International Airline Pilot. The reason why 'days off' are required in between flight patterns.
  5. Some of us have an inkling Nick, and I for one wouldn't be able to deal with the pressures for too long...
    I should also add: during my time in the RAAF at Richmond, tailstrikes were more common than you'd expect - especially from the USAF Starlifter crews. The "wasted" space in the tailsection of those things is more than a C130 Hercules can carry! I'll never forget climbing the ladders...
  6. Mate, tail-strikes can be a common mistake even when correct weights are entered prior to takeoff.
    Pull back that stick too early (prior to rotate) or too abruptly and one is guaranteed to hit the tail.
    Having a tail-strike nearly always results in 'tea and biccies' time in the Chief Pilot's Office :)

  7. tell them sorry sir, i thought i was on my bike doing a wheelie :D
  8. Haha, nice one Goz !
    A wheelie on landing affects our landing distance required - on some aircraft, maximum braking (or whichever autobrake setting is selected for the landing) won't be in full effect until all wheels, including the nose gear, are on terra firma...

    I do like keeping the nose wheels in the air for a slightly extended time if landing on a long runway though (y)
  9. Nickers, is there any braking mechanism that operates through the wheels at all? Such as eddy currents, etc?
  10. Good question Lilly.
    Apart from autobrakes which activate automatically when the ground spoilers (on the wings) extend on landing, there is also Reverse thrust, which is very useful in redirecting the air entering the engine intake forward through side 'bucket doors'.
  11. I have enough of a challenge keeping an old car on the straight and narrow, I'm not about to criticise people who have to keep several tons of aluminium, wire, and other metals, and a couple of hundred people, including themselves, in the air.

    Besides, it's always easy for some chair-borne expert to pontificate about things after the event....
  12. you drive for ek?
  13. Not 'EK'.
    If the sum of the letters EK = 16, then I work for a company whose 2 letter abbreviation = 27
    (and also a secondary reason why I admire Casey Stoner's gig)
  14. The pilot in an aircraft dont give a shit about his passengers,
    He is too busy saving his own neck,
    And while he has that attitude, I know I am perfectly safe in his hands,
  15. Hahahaha !
    Wish it was like that ! That way, after an incident, we'd be the first ones out...which is strictly not the case :D

    I always liked the one about a Pilot in a propeller driven single engine aircraft...

    A pilot...a cool, calculated skillful commander...stop the fan up front and then watch him sweat

  16. Hahahahahahahaaha

    That first step is a doozy tho,
  17. Air Zimbabwe? :eek:
  18. Nickers, easily addressed in the cabin briefing on the way down..In the event of an emergency the Captain will be the last person to exit the aircraft, if I pass you on the way to the nearest exit you will automatically assume the rank of Captain...
  19. #19 Nickers330, Jan 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    Hahahaha, nice one Miraz !

    Speaking of Captain's PA's (welcome aboard blah blah), here's one passed onto me some time ago...a European based airline. I liked it...


    PS - The best airline in the world (;) ) was said at 00:40

    If you liked the above link, here's another for you :)

  20. #20 twainharte, Jan 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015

    you weren't flying out of HK on the 10jan about 11pm-ish were you?

    i was bumped to 12A, if memory serves.