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an almost perfect run... Update

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by nibor, Aug 29, 2007.

  1. since theres no entry in the calendar for this event as it was rather short notice, and the EOI thread has been locked, im thinking this is the only place left to post up about our ride. Moderators, if im wrong, feel free to move the thread, apologies in advance. apologies to all, this is a long post too.

    the day started wonderfully, with a slightly crisp 10am meet-up of both RoderickGI, Chris_gsf250v and myself, we headed from Upper Gully out through Belgrave, and off to Gembrook. I took a wrong turn within 20 minutes, and so delegate the lead rather quickly :LOL:

    back on track, and up past Launching Place and Warburton all were enjoying the curves, with minimal traffic in the way, excluding the kookaburra which decided to take on my headlight @ 80km/h, literally shat itself (its on my jacket :evil:) and glanced off my helmet.

    we pulled over at the bridge just before Reefton Spur for a stretch and a chat. warnings of road debris, crazy 4wd's, and tight corners were passed on. we then pulled out and began the ascent.

    short of a few sticks/rocks causing the front to just out a bit while cornering (and scaring the crap through me as it's never happened in all my 15 days of riding lol), i enjoyed the pace and twists. i worked on looking through my corners as Chris became a nice visual target, being well through the corner before me. Roderick on the other hand, had left us both for dead, but was then held up by a cage :p

    we stopped for a chat again after finishing Reefton, then headed into Marysville for lunch. big +1 to the bakery there, they sure know how to feed a hungry rider!

    once lunch was finished, we began on the Black Spur. such a lovely piece of road it is :) again with Rod zipping ahead, Chris and I worked our way through. turning around for another run, we twisted and turned until taking a short break at the Roadhouse.

    on the next run back through the Spur, heading to Healesville, i took the lead again. hammering through the straights (as well as a 250 can :p) and on the brakes alot more before corners, i actually pulled away from the Bandit and the Ducati a bit, admittedly Rod was riding TEC. I was really enjoying my cornering, when i decided to come in hot on a right-hander, apex too early as it straightens slightly but then continues to bend unlike i thought, and start to run wide. this is where it all went pearshaped.

    rather than looknig through the corner, and turning in harder, my vision wandered to the white line and egde of the road. i really began doubting the turn, and the bike quickly followed. the vision continued into the gravel, as i tried to stand it up and break. i no doubt lost a fair bit of speed, but not enough, going through the gravel and hitting the ditch. the front turned out as it then hit the embankment, i did a lovely flip across the front left, and the bike took a little slide in the grass.

    thank god it was an embanked corner!! grassy too, without the metal barrier which began 3m ahead of where i stopped. i somehow also missed a big black and yellow arrow sign, the bike was resting next to it, and i had flown past the left.

    well i think this is what happened, im not too sure as to what went wrong, other than i was going in a little fast, and then i had doubts. i know failing to commit to the corner meant i binned it, but it was really a psychological thing, it was definately possible to push down and keep turning. this is currently really pissing me off, knowing i could have made it.

    Rod and Chris were close behind, and after thinking it was a stupid place for a rider to park (aaaaaahaha), the realised it was me and pulled over. i came out fine, other than a sore lower thigh and above my left buttock/kidney area. i think i did the flip well :p my gear did its job too, with a bit of dirt about a couple of scuffs on the helmet, but it didnt take much of a hit at all. the bike is another story :cry:

    as it basically hit the embankment at a 45 degree angle, and had already nosedived from the ditch, it went down on the front then left side. the headlight was knocked out of line (bent bracket), left front indicator fitting snapped but it still worked (Rod's magic invisible tape stuck this together for the ride home :LOL:), the left handlebar was slightly bent, and the forks are bent and/or twisted. as such, the wheel was straight when the bars were turned left a few degrees, which made riding home VERY interesting. lefthanders were easy haha, but right turns were a bit odd. the gear lever was bent but straightened courtesy of a mechanic in Healesville, and the rear subframe seems to be lower on one side/bent. a few scratches and scuffs about too, but my Ozzy Knobs did their best. touching down on dirt/grass also helped reduce alot of it no doubt.

    my poor bike is in for a quote tomorrow morning, and depending on the result, i may or may not claim it on comp. im back on the pushbike to and from work. and riding is out of the books for a while.

    a big thankyou to RoderickGI and Chris_gsf250v, who chaperoned me home. albeit a little slow at times, so i was required to pass at speeds which shall not be named to get them to hurry up :p thankfully it also implies no mechanical damage, just structural/cosmetic.

    and cheers for a great, almost perfect day riding.

    i now have some pocketdiving to do, if not redraw on my loan :( and i have alot of thinking to do, about what happened, why it happened, what didnt and what should have happened.

    so much for the GOR ride tomorrow Robsalvv :p
  2. thats a shame to hear mate, i reckon you might have to make a claim :cry: if the prang was bad enough to bend the subframe and forks, its a costly combination of repairs. are ya handy with a spanna? you'll save a shitload in money if its just replacing superficial parts, like take the forks out yourself, and take em into the shops to get straightened/inner tube replaced.
    feel free to PM me on specific questions, ive put my VTR250 back together a couple of time :wink:
  3. "internet explorer is shit and makes double posts"
  4. Bud, I was a little concerned about your experience level and the twisties... I seriously hoped you were going to get through today succesfully - bugger!

    Bugger about the spill.

    Bugger about the bike.

    Bugger about the hurties.

    Very glad you're ok though.

    We all make mistakes.

    I suppose Robin, your experience serves as a good reminder, confidence should be backed up by a solid climb up the learning curve with lots of skill consolidation along the way. You're a naturally confident bloke, don't let this experience thump you back to earth too hard.

    Kudos for getting back up and on the bike right away.
  5. Damn. Glad to hear it wasn't worse. Definitely good to sit down and have a think about it. Deep down most riders know the real reason for their off...if they're honest with themselves anyway. It's how we grow as riders. Learn from our mistakes etc.

    Sorry to hear about the VTR. Hope the damage isn't too bad :(
  6. Sorry to hear about your off. From your description of the corner, it sounds like the infamous "crash corner". Has claimed many people, mostly because it tightens up a touch just about where the armco starts half-way through it, causing many who feel like they're already fully committed to bail out.

    So, don't feel too bad about it. It could've been worse, and been "ambulance corner", which also tightens up but has armco all the way around it.
  7. IDLM - i have no hope with a spanner, unless its yours as i have none, and your there telling me what bit goes where :p i really think i'll be making a claim, and it means i can claim on the helmet too as they have $4k worth of gear cover. was only a little hit, i'd be confident riding with it still, but i might as well make the most of the claim if im gonna do it at all.

    Robsalvv - thats the thing. i have more practice in the hills than in traffic so far! im comfortable with them, and i know i can make all sorts of corners, at my own speed. the issue is in my head, actually getting round how much more i can still lean and turn, i still havent experienced how hard i can push the VTR. the problem is i dont yet have full confidence in it, so i questioned things during the turn. i could have made it, if i just pushed through, but i didnt :( i think it will only come in time, gradually building up a reflex to turn harder than stand up and pull out.

    definately wont stop me riding though :grin: well, only for as long as it takes to repair and pay for, and to convince mum im not a deathwish on 2 wheels :p

    and i havent had a chance to get 'unfit' from not riding the pushy, so at least i'll clock some more kays on there.

    IAV - your not the only one who's glad! i came out pretty damn good all things considering. picked one of the best spots to do it if i had to, other corners were rock embankments, or safety barrier and dropoff :shock:

    i think i want a track bike haha. i really want to get out and take some corners in a controlled situation, and work on everything. improve my line (Roderick helped today a bit :)), my body position, my attitude, everything. Rod doesnt think i have countersteering down pat, and thinking about it more, neither do i.

    who wants to be my mentor? :LOL:
  8. Robin had been riding great all day and was pulling away from me on the spur at that stage so it was surprising to see him and the bike laying on the ground when i came round the corner. It could have been alot worse though he missed a sign by a bees dick and chose the right corner to crash on as well. Hope the bike wont be too expensive to fix mate
  9. Yep, an unfortunate end to the day, which was all fun and good up to then. Still, not so bad an outcome with the bike rideable, and Nibor in one piece, although he is gunna have some bruises!

    Poor bugger, I had been nagging him all day. Take the wide line, go deep, turn late, Counter Steer harder, push push push. Earlier in the day Nibor had taken one left hand corner wide, crossing the white line, then nearly ran off into the dirt on the next right hand corner, but did commit at the last moment, and pull it around. After that he definitely improved, taking a better smoother line, and looking more in control. . . but I still had my doubts over his commitment in a tight situation. Also, he kept getting faster.

    I could have ridden in front of him, and set the pace, but he is a confident fellow, and would have just overtaken me. :shock: It wasn't a mentoring run after all. Next one will be though huh Nibor. I haven't done any official mentoring, as I don't think I'm that great a rider, but check out the mentoring thread, and get Raven or someone on the job. :cool: I'm happy to advise up to my capabilities, of course.

    So listen up all you learners out there, learn what Counter Steering is, really understand it, practice it at speeds you can handle, and try to internalise what it really means. It may save your life, or at least, save you a wad of cash.

    No criticism to Nibor though. He was improving, to the point where Chris (who is a more experienced learner) was having trouble keeping up shortly before the crash. Unfortunately all that bicycle riding gave Nibor the confidence but not the skill on a motorcycle. Practice, practice, practice.

    Keep us informed how the repairs go mate, and let me know when you want to do it all again, without the crash next time though.

    Damn, but it was a silly place to park the bike, up on the grassy side of the road. The cops who made two passes by us checking out what was going on thought so to.
  10. I think another factor is an unfamiliar road. Really sorry to hear, it was a real wake up call when I had my small off, and I found theres no point going in fast, scaring yourself to death while making the corner or going in fast and not coming out the other side.
  11. Ah, bad luck...no wait, bad riding mate :LOL: Glad you're OK nibor, been following your quest for a bike and finally getting one since I got here! :)

    I think hitting twisties after just a few weeks riding, one thing that should be kept in mind...you have absolutely zero reason to be riding so fast between corners that you need to apply your brakes before entry. Set your speed nice and early...better to have to speed up a little just before the corner than slow down a lot, when you're just starting. That's my noob feeling anyway :p
  12. yea definitely, i was unfamiliar with reefton and the black spur so i was riding alot more sedately than i normally do on my usual twisties run. Altho the issue with robin here i think is target fixation not so much counter steering or unfamiliar roads, its all happened to us and sometimes it takes alot of effort to look away from that target then dip the bike in further.
  13. Nibor,

    Sorry to herar about your off. It sounds very similar to what happened to me on the St Andrews-Kinglake road about 3 weeks ago now. I didnt think there was too much wrong with my VTR250, but the damage bill came to $4,700.
  14. I think the fact that he didn't know that it was or was expecting the tricky corner contributed to the fact that he got out of shape by going in too fast, then target fixating and off the side.

    If it makes you feel any better nibor I did the exact same thing. Too fast in, thought to myself I'm not going to make it, looked to were I thought I was going to go off and fixated on it instead of trying to get the bike to turn harder. I know how you feel when thinking back you could have made it if you just looked into the corner and lent it over more. But at the time its easier said than done. I find to train my eyes, instead of looking sideways into the corner with my eyes, I look straight ahead but twist my head around so that looking straight ahead with my eyes sees me looking into the corner.
  15. lol. all day i pretty much never used the brakes when entering corners, i make it a habit to slow down through the gears. only that last run, i decided to move a lil more between corners, but make sure i braked enough so i would still enter at the same speed as if i geared down to slow down. i guess i missjudged this one :cry: and i think i will definately be going back to my old habit if this is what happens :LOL:
  16. :shock: :shock: :shock:

    i popped into Jeffery Honda on the way home, the mechanics had left but i got one of the blokes to have a quick look, i was curious if it seemed much damage. he walked out and straight away "shit you've done a good job there, mate". i thought it was just greedy mechanic talk, but maybe not :shock:

    total excess is $900, so im not paying any more than that lol
  17. first off sorry to hear about your off and glad you came out of it in one piece.

    I do have a couple of questions for you, you say you entered the corner "hot" why were you entering hot to start with, it's generally slow in fast out. Also i am curious to when you got on the throttle? Was it as soon as you saw the first apex?

    Hope you can get the bike fixed quickly and cheaply. Guess another one chalked up to experience

    cheers stewy
  18. Bad luck on the off.. Seems you enjoyed the rest of the day though :grin: Also remember with the insurance, $900 excess and 4-5 years of paying an extra $300-$900 per year so it does add up :eek:
  19. Bummer about that, Nibor! Sounds like you're getting a pretty good idea of what you should have done. Often we know what we should do, but in the panic of the situation, dangerous reactions can take over.

    About the only things you can do is get it really clear about what you should have done, and keep getting out there and practising.
    eg wherever you are, exaggerate your head movement to look around every corner, countersteer wherever you have room (zigzag in straight line), slowly sneak up on lean angles so you know and have confidence in what your bike can do... etc.

    I try to practise those sorts of skills wherever I am, even suburbia, just so they're fresh and hopefully will become my reaction when I'm tested, like you were. Sure, ideally you wouldn't have gone in too hot, but you did - so then what happens depends on if you've had enough practise previously to know how to overcome the natural reactions of target fixation, death grip, etc.

    You stuffed up in a common way. Don't stress, just use it to set the lesson in deep. We all have various lessons in deep :wink:
  20. THAT'S the key Nibor...You probably have reasonable control of your bike (relative to your short time riding)...UNTIL you make a mistake, or something goes wrong.
    You don't yet have the training or experience to overcome the "Survival Reactions" that you often hear talked about..and that's what brought you undone, it seems....
    It is something that happens to us all, mate...so don't get down on yourself too much - just make sure you learn from it for next time.

    I'm glad you missed that sign to!...they can tear you apart - you got lucky there, mate...phew!
    Contact one of the Mentors or head out with Roderick again...It will help you.