Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

am i signing my death certificate by doing this?

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by doug mech eng, Nov 28, 2006.

  1. im 19, i love motorbikes and have ridden a few in my time, although never owned one. here's my experiece so far (little i know):

    -rode 200cc AG bikes a lot on the farm
    -rode a mates XR650 a little bit
    -rode a mates brothers WR426 only for a short while
    -rode my sisters ex-boyfriends ZX-6R for about half an hour around town giving it a fair flogging

    i felt pretty comfortable on all the bikes. the WR, XR and ZX kept me on the edge of my seat, but i felt like if i could handle them. i'm from the country, but this year i've been living and driving in the city a lot. i think i've become a much better driver and also fellow road user. i have got a much better understanding of ettiquete and dangerous senarios that often occur on the road. i feel perfectally comfortable driving in all conditions. i've driven very long trips, in the snow, on gravel roads a lot, in the city a lot, through the mountains a fair bit. i've also got a pretty good sense of danger from riding a push bike in the city quite a lot. i feel like i've sharpened my skills a fair bit from this, and that i'm in a pretty good position to start riding a bike of my own.

    i'm not trying to brag or claim that i know everything. i'm just trying to give you an understanding of where i'm at. my plan is to get my L's in January next year, wait 3 months, go for my P's, and by the time i'm off my P's i'll be able to afford a bike.

    I'll be living in melb for the next 5 years, and will have a car as well as a bike. so i won't be relying on the bike as my only form of transport.

    i've gone through this whole schpeal because i wanted to ask the experienced riders if they think its totally stupid to get a ZX-6R as my first bike.

    I'll be on my full license by the time i can afford a desent bike.

    the main reasons i don't want to get a 250 is the annoyance of buying and selling a bike in a short period of time. also CBR250RR's are pretty much as expensive as 98 model ZX-6R's - except they are shit and stopped being made in 92 i think. i figure i might aswell buy a desent bike...

    i spose i would like to hear from riders that have done a similar thing, and also people who know of others that went down this route, only to end in disaster.

    Cheers, Doug
  2. Lets just say you are increasing your odds!

    My suggestion, get a older bigger bike for a year to get used to the weight. There is a good chance the first and second time you drop your bike will be while parking on a hill or some weird location. Nothing worse than seeing that happen on a brand spanking new bike!

    The statistics say also say you'll probably be very cautious for the first 6 months, then your confidence will exceed your skills which is when you'll get yourself in trouble. I know what its like - seems like an etenity waiting for a big fast bike, but experience does not come overnight!

    Another factor, if you get a cheaper, older bike first and have it insured, the premium on your ZX-6R will be a lot less once you've clocked up a year or two of riding.
  3. Doug,


    Your welcome post says you're going for your L's.

    That means that your first LEGAL bike in Victoria is required to be a 250cc or less... you've already spelled out a clear and healthy flouting of the law though... not sure what value we can add to your question in that case...

    Listen, more than a few folk in here will testify to how much trouble you can get into on a 250cc bike. Don't underestimate them!!

    If you go for a big bore bike, you are completely and utterly uninsurable and will be on your own for all damages. Also, with police in them thar hills, you will be stopped somewhere along the line and have a licence check... so Good luck with it.

    By the way, that really was a bit of a bone head subject heading.

    Cheers, welcome to NR, and nice choice of job.
  4. Personaly i wold NOT recomend going from no licence to a full size sport bike with no previouse ride experiance, believe it or not there are very valib reasons for the L and P plate regulations.

    If you buy a 250 when you get your L's you will have it for 15 months + so will not be buying and selling in a short period of time...

    if you keep your eyes open and buy a reasonable second hand 250 at the right price you will loose SFA $$ dollars on selling it and the amount you will learn in those 15 months will FAR out weigh any financial loses.

    other than that knock youself out, people usualy do what they want anyway regardless of others advice.
  5. well if i was to get a 250, what would people recommend?

    i don't mind CBR250RR's or ZZR-250's

    i want something pretty powerfull for less that 6 grand secondhand.

    and what insurance companies would people suggest?

    how much are your premiums?
  6. Hey Doug.

    Hard for anyone to recommend anything since no one knows you... tall, short, fat, skinny etc etc

    Do some homework mate.

    There's plenty of discussion on 250 bikes to look through, especially the models you've suggested.

    Also, look through bikesales, bikepoint, trading post, ebay, AMT... tyre kick the motorcycle mecca's like Elizabeth st, or get to know suburban motorcycle stores and see what's around.

    Regarding your newbie desire for power... no stock 250cc bike is "powerful" (the bulk are <<30HP), but the more powerful the 250, the more it will cost to insure. e.g. CBR250RR's and Aprilia RS250's will cost $2500+ to insure comprehensively at your age and experience... reason is that too many riders with not enough experience and plenty of tickets on themselves wrap these bikes (and themselves) around trees or send them down the road.
  7. Jeeves, hand me my ten foot pole!
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Hey mate,

    I was of the exact same frame of mind as you before I started riding. But after doing a lot of reading and some more thinking I realised that you wont lose much if any money if you get a decent 250 at the right price and if your thinking CBR250RR IMHO way overpriced for age. And as mentioned you will have it for at least 15 months.

    I picked up a ZZR250 and IMO the road experience on a smaller bike is invaluble! Jumped on a mates ZX-7 the otherday for a feel, and makes you realise how good it is to get the skills you need in those 15 months to cut it on a bigger bike.

    My 2cents
  9. Let me say, first off, that I absolutely agree with the spirit of your post, and that buying a 250cc motorbike is a sane and sensible choice for anyone without current experience, regardless of license status.

    Having said which, the pedant in me wishes to point out that you are technically not correct, and that the original poster is not in fact proposing anything illegal.

    The law states that you must sit a Learner test, and then a test for your provisional license, and for one year after the provisional license you may not ride anything larger than a 250. It doesn't say you have to ride a 250 at any stage other than the tests themselves, because it doesn't say you have to ride a bike at all, other than for the tests. It's perfectly legal to sit your Learner test *and* Provisional test on hired bikes, it's technically possible to pass the Provisional test without having ridden at all between the Ls and Ps , and once you have the Provisional license, the upgrade after 12 months is automatic.

    My reading of the original post is that that's exactly what's suggested - do the Ls and Ps at somewhere like HART using a bike provided by the facility (not sure if anyone does that for Ps, but they may), wait 12 months until the restriction is over, and *then* buy a large, fast, motorcycle. Whether it's a sane plan is precisely what's being asked, but it does seem to me to be perfectly legal.

    Personally, I agree wholeheartedly with everyone suggesting a 250, and as much practice on it as possible between both tests and after gaining the provisional license. But stupid is not the same thing as illegal :)

  10. Yep if your gonna ride in melbourne with LOZ gettting a ten foot pole is probably a good idear from what i hear so voodo goin on there :p .In regards to a bigger bike if u can do it legally and have self control go for it,If you doubt your self control dont do it.Insurance aside probably better gettin an older bike so if u trash it it is no problem just get third party :grin:
  11. If all you care about is power buy yourself a second hand RGV or RS 250.

    When you die can I have your stuff?

    O.K now that i have been a prick, here is a more sensible answer.
    Getting your self a 600 for your first bike has the obvios leagle issues, but as has been covered on this forum time and time again, your bigger issue is you will not be covered by any insurance. so basicly if a Porsche clips you (Not your fault) (You word against theres) and you end up with your bike trashing every panel along the side, say goodby to your bike and to your savings because you against there insurance company in a situation like that. you will probably lose.

    Now if you want to learn to ride then yeah a CBR RR 250 is an option (Or a ZX2R for that matter) or you could go for a twin (ZZR GPX) and get power where you need it without having it screaming its tits off.

    If you want to know if it's a death sentence... that all comes down to your attitude not your bike. But it would still be a stupid decision to ride around uninsured for the first 15+ months of riding where you are most likely to run into issues.
  12. yes. thankyou for your replies. a special thanks to jai for clearing up my original post - my 'plan' is not illegal, perhaps only stupid. and loz is welcome to his/her 10 ft pole, however after a year of riding the 600 i would prefer he/she wielded a smaller pole towards me.

    i now agree that if the 250's are over priced today, they will be tomorrow, so i probably won't loose much on the re-sale. however it's still a fair hassle to track down a good bike twice, and sort out any problems it may have twice. (by buying a 250 then a bigger bike)

    while increasing my risk of having an accident by buying a bigger bike straight away, i would decrease the risk of buying a lemon, and losing money in the repairs...

    i'm still sitting on the fence...

    any more stories, personal accounts or opinions are welcome...
  13. the reason i would be unisured for the first 15 mts is because i wouldn't have a bike.

    let just clear things up here.

    THE 'PLAN':
    1) get L's
    2) get P's
    3) get full license
    4) get a bike

    i want to get my license before getting a bike so i can ride mates motorbikes if i have to/need to. the reason i wouldn't have a bike is that i won't have enough money untill 15mts later.

    therefore its not illegal.

    would an insurance company know that the difference between:
    -a fully licensed rider on a 600 that had experience on smaller bike on his/her L's and P's
    -a fully liceensed rider who went striaght to a 600 once they got their full license?

    would the insurace not be the same or similar?
  14. Ok lets think, no experiance, big bike probably more chance of crashing, injury, serious injury, REALY serious injury, death, family crying, another statistic........

    Wrong. you buy 1 bike it's a lemon. you buy 2 bikes there both lemons, there both not, 1 is one isnt..

    your not SERIOUSLY asking any one here with more than a few brain cells to say " nah mate go for it, you'll be right learning on a 600 sport bike, yeah mate do that"
    if your life is worth less than a few $$ lost on a 250 be my guest, as i said in my first post you'll do what you like any way, why bother asking us????????

    Good luck, give us some credit for brains
  15. i'm asking because i wanted to know the reactions from a wide group of people - whether everyone thought it was a stupid idea or only half-half did. you are the one saying i'll do what i want regaurdless of what you say. when infact i'm partial to positive encouragement to steer away from a powerfull bike. for future refernce, going off at someone is probably not the best way to persuade someone. especially someone who is not as experienced as yourself.
  16. Nah mate go for it, you'll be right learning on a 600 sport bike, yeah mate do that!
  17. I've only ever riden 250's, at even a moddest 40HP they can still surprise you. There have been some bad offs in QLD where they have Qride and a few around here have wondered if those offs have had something to do with inexperience and large bikes.

    My personal vote would be get some time up on something less powerful or top-endish (yes, yes I like to make up words). Even a twin 650 might be a bit more usable and forgiving.

    Don't worry about buying a lemon, it's just money and bikes can be fixed. If it's real bad it'll just give you an excuse to buy another bike :)
  18. +1

    Don't waste your money getting a 250. Go for the bigger bike for sure if youre not planning on keeping the
    250 for very long.

    In the 12mths I was on restrictions I had my license checked 2-3 times & at no time was I ever questioned
    why I was on a big bike. The worse thing that can happen to you regarding the cops is copping an infringement
    notice (which isent that much; & will cost you about 3 demerit pts)

    Well I'm still here.

    There shouldnt be any more chance of anything happening if he rides within his capabilities & rides the bike
    sensible; as one should be doing no matter what bike they are sitting on.

    At the end of the day, its a piece of metal that will only do what you tell it to do. If a powerful bike is given
    the respect it deserves, I dont see any issues.
  19. Buy a cheap bike as a runabout till you get the 600. This way you can continue with your roadcraft learning and keep your skills current. You might even keep the hack bike for a spare when you upgrade.Something beat up but reliable. Something you won't lose much money on.
    Even though the limits may be a lot lower on the small bike, you'll still be able to find them and learn a lot.
    I admire you believing you have all the skills, but you are 19, I was 19 once, I know how impulse and invincibility works on the road! Buy the cheap bike and just learn for 15 months. Remember, you are always learning new things, no matter how old.

    Regards, Andrew.
  20. Well good for you, he asked for opinions and he's getting them.

    Doug i'm not going off at you mate, you ARE increasing the chances of an accident through inexperiance if you jump straight on a big sport bike.

    MG saying
    is all fine but you can say that about anything and accidents still happen, it's all about reducing the risk, your best chance of reducing the risk in bike riding is by learning on a smaller, lighter les powerfull bike.

    its easy realy is reducing the risk of injury or death worth to YOU a few extra $$ of buying 2 bikes over the next 15 or so months.

    Thats it pure and simple mate