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am I just going to hard? chicken strips

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by steltzer, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. look at chicken strips below. I am on my L's, and have been for 4 months. Never riden a motorbike before getting L's and riding on the road. Riding feels so right me. I feel aware of my surroundings, whats going on behind, infront, left, right etc etc. I love leaning the bike over in corners....but i am concerned about hitting the edge of my tyres. Remember this is a Ninja 650RL (restricted). It doesn't really power out of a corner as such, more just goes as hard as it can, and doesn't slip in nice dry conditions. In fact i have only popped the front 2 times, and i couldn't hold it there, just didn't have the power. So, that all being said, when I hit the side of that tyre one day, and I can't power out and ride to the level of grip (due to low power) and bring it back, I am just gunna go down huh? any thoughts? will I feel the edge of the tyre? am I just going to hard for a L plater? It feels great in the corners, and I really enjoy it, and have confidence with what I have achieved so far. Any input is welcome.


    Attached Files:

  2. Lol I'll take a photo of my other mate's tyres who is also on his L's... You have plenty of grip left.
  3. Hmm. What tyres does your bike have? I don't altogether trust the typical learners tyres.

    But even so, the best of the sports tyres should hold a bike at about 60 degrees without to much trouble. Even arrowmaxes and shinko's should hold a bike to a 45 degree lean without any issues, and a rider should be able to get a knee down before or around 45 degrees lean. With your tyres like that, you would be lucky if you're making 25-30 degrees.

    The thing to know about tyres, is that when you lean you are not riding on a thin line of tread and that is the only contact between you and road. Tyres deform during riding and the weight of the bike actually causes that line to be a fairly wide patch of grip. As you head to the side of a tyre, my understanding is that the deformation becomes quite significant so that a decent chunk of the side of the tyre is in contact with the road and while the tyre profile may only reach about 45-50 degrees a greater lean angle may be plausible. This leads to other issues such as tyre wear and pressure dependency, but at the moment all you need to know is that you're in no danger whatsoever of riding off the edge.

    The other consequence of tyre deformation is that it you find the angle normal to the line where the chicken strip starts, this is not the lean angle you are reaching, but only the edge of the contact patch created by the lean angle you make. At a guess the contact patch could be as much as 20mm or more across. A long long way to go yet. For what it's worth, my guess is hero strips typically disappear by about 40 degrees lean or even less, hence you can go way past the disappearance point.

    Oh, one last thing, if you are concerned that you are going to hard, there's quite a good chance that you are.
  4. what do u mean not being able to power out and ride to the level of grip? if your in the right gear you should be fine.
    i ride a 250 and have about half the size chicken strips as yours and have never had any problems with powering out

    work on body positioning and you wont have to lean the bike over as far ;)

    as a new rider you should take it easy though, maybe do a few courses or trackdays as the road isnt the best place to get rid of your chicken strips
  5. I think he's going along the lines of the when in doubt power out idea thinking that when he rides off the edge a bit of the old ham fist will bring it back in - but clearly the problem is that his bike can't make the required power.
  6. Umm...Lilley, 60deg might be a little ambitious mate. The 675 I believe has 57 deg of tilt before it grounds out. I hang off pretty good, dragging knees and such, and have used every millimeter of pretty decent sports tyres, and never grounded the stock pegs. With rear sets, I have more than 60 deg of tilt I suspect, but a very good sports tyre (supercorsa SP2), have been used to within a mil of letting go, and I've been nowhere near touchdown. I'm not positive, but I imagine most of the top sports tyres, on a good temp day, would be approaching their limits with track pressures a little before 60 deg.
    Either way, they would not be doing it easy at those levels, mate.

    Yes, there is deformation as you describe, provididing somewhat more contact patch near the edges than appears, but still, get them over near the real limit, and it is a pretty sharp edge as to whether you have grip or not.

    However, I'm all for standing corrected, if one of the hotboys out there has more direct information. I'm only going on my own subjective thoughts, based on what I'm estimating from my own experiences, mate. It's possible we're both off the mark, so I hope someone chimes in.

    OP....you are riding in the meat of the tyre, and not going to hit the tyres limits in terms of lean angle for a while yet.
    But that is not the issue actually. The issue is more about how much grip your tyres provide at the level indicated. Expensive rubber could easily have twice the grip a regular pair of road tyres may have at the same lean angle.

    One other point you need to keep in mind, is that cornering is a complicated issue, with a lot of variables. Say we had a very experienced rider with no strips, and an inexperienced rider with no strips.
    Who would you put your money on as far more likely to come out the other side
    of a corner, after encountering a wet patch, a nasty bump, some dirt mid-corner, a dog running across the road in front of them, a corner that tightens up, a change to off camber, just a rough or poor surface at the apex, etc...

    No one seems to have as much trouble bombing into a corner, as they do with coming out the other side of it.
    Keep that in mind, and never judge a rider by their chicken strips. For a couple of months, and up until yesterday, mine were similar to yours, maybe a smidge smaller, but I'll bet I am running at speeds quite a bit more than yours.

    I recommend That you consolidate your skills, develope your experience and keep what you have in tyre real estate left over, up your sleeve for an emergency, like a decreasing radius corner that you have misjudged perilessly, so you have a chance of coming out the other side. :)

    Just my 2 cents worth..
    • Like Like x 1
  7. I wouldn't worry too much about the bike/tyre capabilities if I were you.
  8. Wait why would the problem be that you're going too hard if you have chicken strips...don't they suggest the opposite?
  9. Eh? Who said that?

    In any event, chicken strips do not directly indicate how hard a rider is going. A skilled and experienced rider, who is hanging off through corners, could quite easily have some tyre left, even though he is riding at a solid pace.
    An inexperienced rider with poor body position travelling slower could have little or none.

    Chicken strips only indicate the lean angle a bike has been at.
    The type of riding being done, can dictate lean angles. So one can only generalise what may have been going on, based on the tyres alone.
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Agree with Raven, dont worry too much about whre you are leaning to on your tyres. This is one of the issues with the Internet, ou learn about things too early and get worried about things when you should be concentrating on riding.

    Smart riders will be rarely be using to the edge of their tyres on the street, it gives you nowhere to go if you need to tighten your turn.

    Forget about your tyres and concentrate on being smooth-being in the right gear and the right speed for the corner and you will be safe and quick.
    • Like Like x 5
  11. quite possibly but I was exaggerating some to enforce the fact that he was nowhere near the edge. I believe the guy I work with has come close to grinding on the odd occasion he throws the elbow down.
  12. I can get rid of chook strips doing fig 8's. I wouldn't call doing them hard cornering. but it gets rid of them completely.
    You can counterbalance and use up all the tyre and lean angle really quickly.
    Or you can sit on the bike like a welded rod and use up the tyre pretty quickly.
    Or you can help the bike turn and use up bugger all of the tyre and be a lot quicker than most.
    Chicken strips mean jack shoite in the real world.
    They might give good bragging rights when your talking Shit. But that's about it.
    As for powering out of loosing the back through riding off the tyre mmm.
    Asking a tyre to do two things at once is never going to give you good traction in either thing you ask of it.
    If I am steering and driving from the rear, the rear tyre is a long way from being near the egde.
  13. Its not small chicken strips that impress me,up till recently seeing great ripped ribbons of rubber hanging off the edge of back tyres after track days impressed me heaps till mine did the same after 4 laps of Eastern Creek.
    Its easy to do with too much air and spinning up out of turns,now I know what tyre conservation means,doing the opposite is good fun though.
  14. I suspect the OEM tyres (BT020s?) don't have a lot of feel. There are better tyres around and maybe think of changing before you go too hard. I've had Roadsmarts, BT023s Pirelli Angels on my ER6 and they are all good.
    Other thing is to check your riding style. Might be pushing the bike under you or turning in too slow.
  15. Thats good to hear Brentto lol....................I cant seem to get rid on them.
  16. Mine tend to go down to very small or nothing petty quickly but I like corners and I like leaning through corners, and I also like to go out and scrub new tyres in so the skin is off them most of the way to the edge pretty soon. I don't want to have to turn hard and find the tyre is unscrubbed. I dropped a bike once on a test ride for that reason, and I've always been a bit wary about it ever since.

    At the OP - I think yours are fine and I wouldn't be too worried about what you need to do based on those pictures. Just keep riding and practising and learning. You're doing fine.
  17. awesome, excellent advice. thanks alot, i will concentrate of smooth in and out, and being in the right gear and the right speed, I will stop worrying about the tyres. thanks all.
  18. Raven I disagree (Doesn't happen often), if the pro rider still had strips there would be a very defined line of torn up rubber. The OP's pic shows that there is plenty of virgin rubber in reserve and the ~10mm above that is barely scrubbed in which means that it has spent less than a few seconds at that lean and certainly not under moddest throttle.

    My opinion is he has stacks in reserve but that doesn't mean he has the form to go further.
  19. Sorry mate, but I think we are actually in agreement, but maybe I said it unclearly, or maybe you misunderstood me? What you just said, is what I was alluding to, mate :)

    If it's no bother, can you quote me, so I can see what I may need to rephraze.?
  20. The 650RL has plenty of power in ristricted mode. the mention of right gear is correct. Right gear right time and smooth on the gas. Being smooth might be the hardest thing on the RL the ECU restriction sort of takes some of the smoothness out but still doable