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am I expecting to much? He's got a GADGET...der. LONG. sorry

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' at netrider.net.au started by Caz V1, Mar 15, 2007.

  1. Long story, spose I should apologize in advance......
    if I had a bike to ride it would only be half as long...
    but I'm home with no bike so I sooth my soul by venting on the netrider forums and you all have to suffer along with me :p
    I'm pretty sure that sometime during your life you would have had one of those moments when you think to yourself, crikey...
    "I'm turning into my parent/s." :shock:
    As an old tried and tested addage rings out in your ears in the eerily familar accent of one of your parents.....along with an immediate desire to grab the clock and vigorousily wind the hands back about 3 weeks and make different decisions, ahh hindsight , isn't it wonderful.
    Any way, I digress, so.... what is this post about?
    a few things end up being bought to my attention, namely how women are still treated by bike shops in a condascending manner...soooo 1970's.
    business are quick to pass the buck but slow to admit fault.
    Never accept something as final until you know of alternatives that have been thoroughly investigated.
    dont accept CANT as an excuse/outcome...without proof, sometimes you CAN if you try.

    The short version, lol.....
    Bike has battery/starting issues and wont hold charge, 2 weeks of roll starting from home ( easy cos my drives on a hill, meaning that I can only visit friends/shops etc with a hill to roll start to return home again)
    3 headlights blown in 2 weeks. Starting to get to the point ya have to fix it, cos its not gonna fix itself ( that super long night ride I did hoping it would charge the battery didnt achieve much more than being a nice ride and proof the battery was indeed buggered, der. ) I'm now imposing on people to actually push me when there is no hill to roll down(how embarrassing)

    Bite the bullet and decide to get it looked at.....
    Ring the newly opened local Yamaha store about a battery, sorry but we won't be able to get one in til tomorrow..... WTF, tomorrow, but I need a battery now, not tomorrow, ring alternative bike shop and am soon on my way to there store. problem solved... or so I thought.

    This is the bit where I ask for advice on what you think would have been the standard proceedure you'd expect from your local mechanic/bike store.

    If a customer presents his/herself to a workshop with battery issues, or any mechanical issue for that matter....
    would you expect the mechanic to at least investigate what may have caused the issues to begin with or is the sale/replacement of the battery as in my case the standard one stop solution?

    The reason I ask this is because I would like to know what you expext as minimum service from your mechanic. Am I expecting to much to think that identifying a cause and fixing the root of the problem is considered standard and not an optional extra and that I should only expect to be told the easiest quick fix temporary solution as standard service.

    ok..the long version.....
    starts off same as the short version but has a few resulting situations that I need to think about.

    3 weeks after I replace the battery I find myself broken down on the side of the Rd and also have blown another two headlights in the past 3 days, and had to roll start the bike this morning.
    Do the old fashioned damsel in distress thing with the local bike shop and arrange to have the bike and I picked up and taken back to their workshop.
    Good, a knight in shining armour is coming to rescue me and solve all my problems.
    1000 different scenarios pass through my head along with the worst of possible outcomes and costs.... like I mean we all imagine the worst and hope for the best.
    The bike and I are transported back to the workshop and the mechanic there takes down a bit of info regarding issues that have led up to the current state of affairs( I think thats what karma is...past actions bring you to your current position... Carri will know what I'm on about, lol).
    And then after analysing my tale of recent events he reaches the following conclusion....
    Yep, look at this Battery, its fried.... the other shop sold you a dud battery.
    ( I think they call that passing the buck, lol, or perhaps it was a little sly dig at me for not buying it from them to start with.....
    cos they would not sell me a "cheap"battery like this.... or would they?)

    First thing I have to do is contact the other shop and find out where I stand with them and what they are going to do about it....
    well, low and behold, "so...the other guy thinks we sold you a dud battery does he? well he might want to make sure he is right and test the regulator and make sure that isn't why the battery is fried before he goes off at the mouth (immediately my thought was, yep ok, I do hope he took his own advice in the first place and checked the reguator when he installed the battery.)I'm stuck in a ping pong game.
    but I heed his advice and proceed to advise the mechanic that I would like him to put his money where his mouth is and balls on the line by proving to me it is the battery and not something else ( regulator) before I go and authorise him to fit battery number 3 without question.
    Aw geeee, seems I've opened a can of worms, so out comes the spanner and we actually take the seat off and inspect the battery and check it with a multimeter. shock horror, the batteries are being fried by a dud regulator...who would have thought :roll:

    One place sells me the first battery as a quick fix( no other checks), then the other shop tries to sell me another battery as a quick fix to replace the original shops error, then the original shop denies fault by announcing "I have a gadget" and it will tell me if the battery is crook...or not. Did I hear right???
    he has a gadget...me oh my, a gadget, now isn't that lucky for him.
    Now, if I was male, would the mechanic have told me..I have this thing called a "insert fancy name of said equipment here" ( expecting me to be impressed by his technical knowledge of diagnostic tools and thoroughly understand what he meant) or cos I'm female has he tried to dumb down his explanation by using terms like GADGET cos if he said the technical term he would only confuse me, cos he doesn't expect me to know what the technical term is anyway, after all, I'm female.
    Or did he have a blonde moment and genuinely forget what the said thingemabob/gadget/ "multimeter" was named and reached for the GADGET word to fill the gap in his memory as opposed to the gap in my intellegence... nothing pisses me off more than not being treated as an intelligent knowledgeable woman capable of comprehending things as well as expect certain levels of service to go with it.

    Can you understand my frustration, sure, the regulator is cactus and is playing havoc with batteries/bulbs frying the lot.
    Presented with the bike for a chance to check other posible causes and then not do so until challenged by another store, ....
    not one mechanic searched for a underlying problem until being faced with the prospect of having to refund the money if they were wrong. Admittedly the first shop that sold me the battery was correct, they didnt sell me a dud battery and are not liable for replacing it....BUT, they also failed to investigate thoroughly what the battery issue was caused by and just sold me a battery, fitted it, and waved me goodbye. Not to mention really made me reasses if I will go back to them and their poor service and GADGETS( which ironically had he of used his gadget in the first instance to check the battery after he installed it...... no shop sells you a battery..and installs it without checking it before they declare the problem fixed and allow you to leave the store)
    Building a trusting relationship with a mechanic is not an easy task and it doesn't happen at the drop of a hat, but surely they must realise that if customers are not treated with the respect they deserve they wont come back..and if they dont come back...you go broke no matter how good a mechanic you are.
  2. jeez, cazz, any persusal of this forum will show that whenever someone presents with battery problems, someone ALWAYS says, "Check the regulator too!". ANY mechanic should know that, if amateurs like us know that :roll:......
  3. I suspected as much!

    now, what I really want to know is... should I go back to the shop that fitted the first battery and demand a refund for the battery because they failed to do the job 100% thus causing me more frustrations and also the cost of towing and another battery. If it had of been done right in the first place I would not be home bikeless nor would I be out of pocket another $135 bucks. Or should I just cop it sweet, put it down to experience and not go back again.
  4. If you go into a shop and ask for a battery, that's what they will sell you.
    You should have told them what your bike was doing and asked them to look at it or to offer an opinion. Mechanical shops in general make lots of money selling people stuff to do repairs which are not the correct fix, and make even more money selling the fix. Just look at the number of posts in Netrider, every time something vaguely electrical happens, all the no idea experts shout buy a battery.
    . Unfortunately, women are treated as being dumb ,and are often ripped off.
    By the way, a regulator is dead easy to install, give it a go yourself if you know which end of a screwdriver to hold!

    Regards, Andrew.
  5. Eeeek Caz with a screwdriver…….that just dose not sound right…I fear for the rest of us the day that happens :LOL:
  6. this is exactly what I did, rang them up, explained my dilema re numerous headlights blowing in a short time and no charge being held in the battery obviously because it had been fried. And the only solution i was offered was a new battery.

    is this ethical??? do I have any recourse?? because ultimately they did not asses the situation correctly like I would have expected a "qualified" mechanic to do. I understand changing a battery is one of the simplest of tasks and am aware that the apprentice at the store was given the job , but shouldn't he be supervised/ trained/advised by a knowledgable mechanic so when he earns is papers he doesn't treat his customers with contempt like I feel I have been treated.

    if I put up and shut up this will continue to be the norm.
  7. G'day everyone,.....

    You are right that the cause of the problem should have been found in the first place so as not to leave you with a repeat of the same problem again.Or worse!
    Comming from a family of engineers,I was always taught to find the cause,then fix it!
    Typhoon is right as well,.....if you ask to have a battery replaced,.....thats what thay will do and thats that.
    Although someone with proper training should have looked to find WHY the battery was fried!
    I would suggest that in future you always ask WHY did that happen and get whoever fix's your fault to find out WHY!
    Exept nothing less,on the other hand you could do a Automotive repair course (or relivent bike course)and learn to look after your bike yourself.
    Just a thought.

    Dr Who?
  8. Wow talk about reading "war & peace" :shock: :LOL:

    I've had a few drinks so I think this rambles just alittle too :p

    A few questions for yah Caz :)

    Did you just call / go in and say I think my battery has crapped it self, and need a new one ?

    Or did you try and explain it the way you have expressed yourself here? If so, most spare parts persons would have tuned out and ignored everything you said past the " I need a new battery. "

    As mr Hornet said ( any twit with half a mechanical brain would have said check further ) :cool: BUT batterys can just die without any help from the electrical system.

    Unfortunatly in todays age where 'time is money' you get what you ask for, unless you present in a way which could mean extra workshop dollars.

    It also depends on the spareparts / person you talk to as well,
    Most ( not all ) spareparts / salepersons are NOT mechanicaly minded and are happy to just sell you what you ask for end of story,
    But if they are alittle bit more savy they will go that bit further and ask
    * while were replacing the battery would you like us to check the charging system just to make sure everything is ok * ( a good service person would check as a matter of course ) but once again if its a large workshop, things like changing a battery is handed to the apprentice or trainee, and they wont do anymore than whats asked :LOL: :LOL:

    Its also possable that the regulator has crapped it self after the new battery was installed, it would have been working overtime trying to charge the stuffed battery etc etc etc

    In the end its comes down to EXACTLY what did you ask of bikeshop that installed the 1st battery ? If you only asked for a new battery thats exactly what you got. Im tipping that you told the 2nd bike shop "I bought a battery from XXX last week and I think they've sold me a dud?" ( it is possable )
    So they where going to replace it again after you rang the 1st shop to get the ok for a warranty replacement ? And then the regulator has come into play ? but anyway I'd put it down as a learning experiance.

    Why didn't you post up a question on here about it all before hand ? then you could have had all the amunition to go to the 1st bike shop and got it fixed right the 1st time

    :LOL: :p :LOL:
  9. Blowing bulbs is a classic overcharging problem, and anyone with more than a few years tooling around with bikes or cars should have immediately suspected regulator/rectifier.
    Caz, I was not meaning to sound condascending in my post, it was not my intent.
    I get just as angry as you when people treat women this was, my mother was once told she needed a new computer for her car, I bought a workshop manual, diagnosed a faulty coolant temp sensor and spent $65 fixng the problem, instead of $1000. :evil: :evil:
    Another mechanic told her the car I just sold her (I had owned it for 5 years and maintained it myself) needed $3k worth of repairs, including a gearbox service and new shocks all round. I had just done those two items! :evil: :roll: So stay away from Ryde Nissan.
    Anyway, I fear it wil not change, as more and more customer sales and service people are hired purely on what the minumum salary they will accept is, and not on their knowledge in the field. Sales and service will never get better if the staff are offered $477 a week, and are expected to work weekends too.
    As for getting the apprentice to deal with such a problem, a definite no no! I'd never do that, I would have them with me whilst we discussed and diagnosed it though, so they could learn.
    I just spent a brief 3 months working for Repco, the store manager had never worked on a car in his life, and most of the front counter staff merely knew how to look up a part number, and had no idea what a part looked like. One supposedly knowledgeable guy when I was there (was appointed sales rep) ordered in and tried to sell a guy a radius rod bush, when he wanted a lower control arm bush. One has a metal case, one does not. Very easy to tell them apart, IF you have the vaguest knowledge.
    By the way, don't ask me how many litres a week of Wynn's Engine stop leak and Radiator stop leak we sold to mechanical workshops. :shock:
    Sorry, rant off.
    Anyway, don't expect it to get better, I only get what I want at spare parts stores becuase I've armed myself with knowledge, ansd usually go in with a part number, it's just easier that way.
    My advice would be to visit all the bike workshops in your area with your problem, and you'll soon be able to tell the ones that are full of it or not by their answers, and you can pick the one that is not condascending and arrogant.
    The thing that really annoys me about this is that two minutes with a $25 multimeter would have diagnosed a reg/rec problem, and probably won them a long term customer.

    Regards, Andrew.
  10. Heh, I picked one up at Bunnings the other day for $4.95 - claims to be accurate to +-0.5% :)
  11. I reckon after having to pull apart the headlight 5 times in 3 weeks to change globes I've got the screwdriver thing down pat. :wink:

    To add another issue to my situation, once the problem re the regulator was identified, a part was ordered and a total price is negotiated.
    I'm happy, until I get told the regulator wont be in stock until monday at the earliest :shock: what will I do without transport for 4 days.... I don't use my car at all, and it is sitting with a flat battery due to lack of use.
    The part is in QLD and needs to be freighted down, sorry caz, the earliest it will be here is Monday........
    NO.... sorry Brad but you don't understand.... thats not acceptable, surely there is a regulator at another store somewhere in Melbourne that you can source, then I go off on my rant about how I KNOW it is a known fact that manufactures must have adequate spare parts available at all times or else DONT sell the vehicle in the first place if a customer can not expect to have reasonable access to spare parts. I get a blank look and no response, but he does pick up the phone and try an alternative supplier...
    ok I can have one here tomorrow morning, you will have your bike back before lunch tomorrow but it will cost you another $10
    $10 extra, I can cope with that if it means having the bike back tomorrow.
    My response was.... from 4 days down to 1 day...
    You've just earnt yourself a big gold star for performing well under pressure :wink:
  12. Caz, in the dim dark old days you know when we were in our late teens and early twenties we had to learn how to fix our cars, we also needed to develop a relationship with the local spanner monkey as our cars were breaking down all the time often after we had serviced them :oops: . Aaah the joys of owning a souped up Torana or Kingswood. :grin:

    I have not picked up a spanner to fix a mechanical device for nearly 15 years so when I went to tighten my chain I had no idea, and this is from a man who used to raid tips to get a new diff for his HD Holden. Anyway I guess the point is if we are not mechanically minded or as in my case I don't have the time and/or a back up transport method we need to make friends with our local mechanic. Arrogance is a condition that many people show and i have found my two local dealers are really approachable, so I guess I am lucky. Oh except for that Pnut guy :p :wink:
  13. I could not agree more, I am really impressed by the service I got from my new local dealer yesterday, although I did have to apply pressure to get the time frame reduced, and I did have to insist he look further for a cause rather than just take for granted I had a crook battery.
    It made no difference to him how long it took to finish the job the $$$ at the end of the day for him are the same, but I am the one that goes without my bike, so of course I applied pressure to rectify the time delay.
    All of the people invovled in this dilema have been friendly to deal with, but at the end of the day I want service, not friends...
    I have plenty of friends here :LOL: :wink:
  14. Hi Caz, this is truly distressing...

    The 1st place that sold you the battery, should, if you advised them of the blown bulbs immediately suspected the regulator. For the sake of a battery I wouldn't flame them, but ensure you never go back there again.

    The last dealer you seem happy with, well, the fact that they needed pushing to locate a closer part is not something they should feel proud about. They didn't respond well under pressure, they merely responded to your annoyance. They knew your story, knew your need, but still offered 4 day turnaround.

    Sorry to be such a downer, but I feel anger and annoyance for you.

    Hope you're back and running soon.
  15. This is why I have not mentioned the name/location of the store.
    I did mention the bulbs cos I also had to buy a new bulb while I was there, although because it was daylight and I didn't want them to charge me more money for fitting it, I took it home and fitted it myself.
    Not being a trained mechanic I didn't know what was causing the bulbs to blow, but I would have thought after mentioning it while discussing the battery they would have twigged as to what was really wrong.

    This new local store is where I want to build up a repore with the mechanic/service guys from now on.

    They handled the "damsel in distress" situation fantastically.
    I was stranded in sydney rd brunswick in the heat and they had both the bike and me back at their workshop within an hour.
    How ever, the fact I had to prompt for that little bit extra as far as time delay goes as well as do the "money where ya mouth is" stuff regarding finding the cause of the battery issue instead of just stopping at the battery itself means I will be having a friendly chat with them once I have picked up the bike and all is well.
    I will tell them that overall I am very happy with their service although I expect that little bit more. I will not get angry or use bad language, although I will make sure they understand that I will not tolerate anything less in the future. If after hearing what I have to say they understand where I am coming from and agree with my principles....I will be more than happy to go back to them in the future. If I get a response tainted with attitude... I will not hesitate in informing them I will go elsewhere in the future.

    is it lunch time yet :LOL:
    they said I'd have the bike back before lunch :cool:
  16. An example of good service.

    I had need to order a replacement mirror for the T (I bust it :oops: ).

    Dealer #1 said that there 1 in Sydney and they would order it the next day and then 2 days delivery from there. Est arrival Monday. Bad, but not dire. Asked if I should call anywhere else and received a dismissive answer.

    Dealer #2. Have reluctance to call these guys, Have a mixed reputation for service and sales. Told similar information, but advised that order would be placed now. Still told that Mon was likely as a delivery date. But...I mentioned I was going to PI for the weekend. The accessory guy was doing the same. He offered to take the part (should it arrive) and hand it to me there. My CC was bust (waiting for a replacement, but void) and so I couldn't even make a deposit. As expected, part turned up on Monday and I was called and advised. I am now having to review my previous negative thoughts on this dealership.
  17. I think the T should come and live at my house :LOL: :wink: :p :cool:
  18. Were is that emote for "pulling out hair in frustration" :roll:

    it's way past lunch time and no phone call from the shop....
    so i call them, a cheery voice answers the phone.....hold on I'll just go and see how things are!

    ummm, Caz..... (the voice is not so cheery anymore)
    they have sent us the wrong part :shock:

    I've been assured i should not panic because all will be rectified, they will ride over and exchange it for the correct one.

    time will tell I guess.
  19. That sucks. Buy one off Ebay/the net I say, always worked for me. There are generic regulators and aftermarket regulators available, equally as good as factory items.
    Did I tell you how much I love owning a Kawasaki? Every K dealer I've been to has been ridiculously helpful, parts available in a day or two(on the very rare occasion something breaks), always reasonable prices and I've ALWAYS been contacted as soon as parts arrive.
    Huge thumbs up to Newcastle Kawasaki and Canberra Motorcycle Centre. :grin:
    Caz, I'd just ride the bike on the weekend if need be, just make sure to keep the battery topped up with water.

    Regards, Andrew.
  20. you know that film that came out a fair few years back called
    "the never ending story".....
    well I reckon this is gonna be the sequel.
    It just doesn't end..... :-s :-k

    I was hoping to be able to return home this evening and post a final message and that would be the end of it, no such luck I'm affraid. ](*,)

    After waiting all day for a phone call to advise me that the bike was ready to pick up, I just went there and hoped for the best.
    Firstly it took for me to ring after lunch for them to realise they had the wrong part, and I was promised I'd have the bike before lunch, then told later that afternoon.
    5.15 I rock up to the shop, the service manager see's me approaching and I can see his demeanor change immediately.... "Ohhhh Caz... your bike...."
    "whats wrong now" I asked, "well ya bike needs a new battery, this one is fried" :roll: :shock: Like I mean, isn't this old news, didn't we already know this! "I wasn't sure if you wanted us to replace the battery or the other store that sold you the one thats in it now to deal with it"
    righto, I thought this was all organised yesterday, I instructed you to do what ever it took to get me going.... the other business with the previous battery I will deal with seperately. Do you have a battery to suit in stock.... :?:
    "yes" GOOD, go and fit it then. :!:

    Don't bike shop employees know how to use a phone, if he had a question about the battery, why not just ring me rather than wait for me to come in.

    battery is installed, checked that its charging correctly, I'm happy.
    Time to pay the bill and get out of here.....
    Yesterday I was quoted $135 which later increased to $145 cos I wanted parts sooner, I'll cop that.
    Cos he didn't include the battery in the quote yesterday he now has to add that onto the bill, I can cop that too, just give me a figure and lets be done with this issue once and for all.
    That will be a total of $139 thank you...... :?
    Something isn't right here, so I quickly pay and get out of there.

    in his haste to get rid of the pest of a chick that owns the pissy Virago, he punches in all the stuff off the job card, and forgets to include the "damsel in distress" pick up service that I was told would be $55.(which was included in the original quote he gave me yesterday)

    A win for me in one way, but karma has bitten me back and the buck does not stop there.....

    I spose this isn't really the shops fault but given all the symptoms I hoped they might have checked my headlight too, since I had been blowing globes left right and centre. Turns out yesterday prior to conking out I blew another globe, but because it was daylight I never realised. So on my way into coffee tonight I'm on the freeway and realise something isn't normal, shit better stop and buy a globe ( thanks scumbag for changing it tonight) another $10 to the tally.

    Ive just got home and now my left indicators wont work.....
    It's not the switch cos I tried the hazard switch and that works but only the right side is working.....

    Cos VTR BOb said I should have asked for advice first in the initial stages of my drama.... this is where I now turn the problem over to you people for advice..... why aren't my indicators working now.... do I need a new flasher unit, has this possibly been fried? It worked fine all the way into coffee and home again, just the last corner turning into my street I noticed it wasn't working. Any suggestions would be much appreciated, before I spend money on more parts.