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Advanced Riders Course Review

Discussion in 'Businesses and Service Providers' started by Iffracem, Apr 3, 2005.

  1. If you ever get a chance, do the Stay Upright (or similar) advanced riding course. what a blast.
    I did the Baskerville (Tas) based one yesterday, it was EXCELLENT.

    First half the day was spent doing basic techniques, going down gears with a throttle "blip", smooth breaking, bit of slow riding stuff, head position etc. with a lot of "one on one" advice and critiques.

    Second half started with emergency braking and avoiding at the speed you wanted to try, a demo done at 120-30 k's (both right and wrong way to do it :shock: ) The chief instructor is an ex racer, he does impressions af a typical squid hoon to show the wrong way, what a laugh!!
    Then you learn the fast cornering stuff... WOOOOT! \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

    I learnt heaps, scraped the pegs/sidestand on the left lotsa times :LOL: (only one right hander of note and you take that one easy to set up for a double left).

    Then it was all out "go for it sessions" for the rest of the arvo.
    Go as hard or as easy as you like, they split the group into two (we only had 20 riders turn up) so the R1's, Ducatti S4 etc could really turn it on without having to worry about Across's, Spada's, touring Beamers etc getting in the way.

    Across's with fat guys on EAT Spadas, Kwaka Balius and assorted Bonnevilles, Beamers etc for breakfast 8) I didn't have much luck against the 955 trumpy sprint tho :p . A little old RGV250 was battling it out in the big guys group and doing pretty well too.

    A friend on a Bonneville T100 was tooling around the circuit, looking like he was out for a sundee ride, but eating up everyone!! Jeez he looked so cool and casual, sounded like a beast as well! Almost as nice as the Ducatti S4.... I cracked a phat each time that went past the pits =P~

    I managed to get the Across up to 135kph down the back straight (short and uphill for the first 100-150 metres) could have done a lot better after another couple of sessions, or if I didn't weigh 110 kg's :wink:

    Took the camera, but no decent pics, we were all too busy riding, and the instructors were too busy with their job's (safety, stewards etc) to help out with the camera.

    They do the same course @ Symmonds in Tas (as well as most Eastern States) but they reckon Baskerville is best, more turns and twisties :wink:
    Anyways, I'm buggered still, too much fun in one day for an old bloke :LOL:

    Thoroughly recommended for anyone on two wheels and a motor, even two "L" platers were there, and had just as much fun. You get the chance to SAFELY learn your (and the bikes) limits.

    JJ (who has a NO chicken strip on the back wheel anymore, and a lot less rubber than he used to have)
  2. That sounds like so much fun! Just checked their website, no course in SA. :(

    Anyone know of a similar course in SA???

  3. In the process of putting together a course as we speak actually. Hardest thing is trying to secure a venue. I have been trying to secure sponsorship or even subsidies from TAC but to no avail. At this point in time "there is no evidence that advanced rider training reduces motorcycle rider accidents". Back on earth we all know the answer. When I have got something together I will post on the board, with details costs etc.


  4. Contact Mallala and ask them who hire the circuit for Ride Days.
  5. Geeze Tones.....I'd be making noise in the press about that one!!!!! Especially when there is so much debate, at least in the eastern states, about driver/rider training/licencing etc...Admittedly for young people, but we all know that the two age groups that are most at risk are the newly licenced 17-25 YO's at the circa 40 year olds just coming back to bikes....

    The press can also be our friend.....the importance is knowing how to make "news"....

  6. Yes very true. Unfortunately in my opinion "evidence" is simply how you interpret data. You are of course spot on with the data of the highest "risk" age ranges. It has been argued that the younger age group (namely 18-25) simply "lack experience" and the "return to motorcycling" bracket are "complacient with experience". I must be pretty stupid but I would think that training would help these issues. There has always been much debate between the MSC, Vic Roads and TAC as to "how to address the problem". Many "advanced courses" are viewed by the powers to be as increasing the skill level with regards to physical bike control, but fail to address the mental control. It has been argued that the increase of bike control skills leads to a false sense of security. I have asked for "evidence" of this conclusion and am waiting! Dealing with some of these authorities is truely a labour. They are very set in their ways and dont like to be told anything they didnt come up with themselves. For example try and build and develop a new training facility. You can present them with arcitectural drawings, plans, etc. But powers to be wont approve it for use until they see it built. I can understand if a finished product was different to how it appears on a plan. But they would not approve a plan, only a finished project would they then look at it. Would you want to be the one putting up the investment for something like that? Some of us dont have the resources of some companies either! Why cant they approve something off a plan? Simple - because "there is no provision in the provider agreement for such a proposal". Another project was to build an undercover training range so we could control the riding surface. Again that was rejected as well. Anyhow I best shut up :)

  7. Yes I have also read the "false sense of security" view in regard to driver and rider training...Kinda weird I reckon as everytime I have done one of these things it actually rams home just what dangers there are and how mistakes are pretty easy to do....

    But I'd still make noise....Ring up the local journo's after you've thought about how to make it "news"....I run a marketing dept - so I have to do this for the most boring topics - so I reckon on this you could have a winner...

    Also - the broad media - not motorcycle specific...

  8. Try contacting Motorcycle Australia, they lease Broadford out, not sure on other tracks, that's down here in Vic anyways.

    As for the TAC, we riders are good for our $50 levy but they don't have any real interest in us apaprt from that I reckon.

    There are 2 arguments re advanced motorcycle training, one being it can only do good, the other being that riders doing advanced riding courses take more risks as their confidence increases.

    Noone has actually taken the time to find out any stats of note, given that there are a fair number of companies ffering rider training one would think thre must be some benefit if they are all surviving financially.
  9. I should add that before we spent the day on the track, there was three hours the night before covering the "mental aspects", the day at the track was giving us the toolsto physically apply the right mental approach.

    Stay Upright quoted stats from NSW that cannot be read any other way, Bike rider deaths on roads have dropped from ~500 to ~200 since compulsory rider courses have been implemented. Taking it one step further with advanced courses can only help.

    Sure we had a good time, but all of us left with a better appreciation of the mental (knowledge and attitude) and physical requirements of road riding.

    It is far more than a "ride day", sure it was fun, but the point is I learnt masses more in one day on that course than 2 years commuting 50k's a day could ever do. At $230, bloody cheap in my book (saving up for next year already)

  10. AZ

    i cant remember the website

    but i believe if you ring the aprilia garage out at strathalbyn they know of someone that runs courses like this in murry bridge
  11. Just checked out the Stay Upright coarses,


    $320 to do it in Sydney, OK got to hire the track, supply and demand so $ go up and got to get insurance. But travel a couple of hours down the road to the ACT and it only costs $230, WT :shock:
  12. The track the ACT one is held at is hardly exciting...Personally I'd be going up the road to Sydney...

  13. Thanks for your feedback JDM. I will most likely be taking your advice once a few more responses have been gained.

    The main stumbling block is a venue as mentioned earlier. That is to say a venue needs to booked way in advance (even broadford). Once there is a venue there is insurance (we carry 10 million libillity insurance anyhow, and is what is required to be licenced by Vic Roads) but you need another 10 million cover for the days that you are training. Each instructor is required to have professional indemnity insurance and that is $2500 a year per instructor. Then of course there is standby medical facilities, staff, weather and of course clients!! Not trying to bog you down with the details but just to point out there is a lot to organise, let alone the quality of the actual content. Most of the training facilities out there provide learner and licence training. Those that take it a step further are often specialised in particular forms of riding and there are a small number that do advanced rider training (for use on the road). What we are putting together is more than likely going to be two courses. One for those returning to riding after an absence. And another for advanced road riding control skills, hazard perception and roadcraft. We are looking at NOT doing this stuff on a track, but more so something that simulates real world. For example differing surfaces so that more realistic braking exercises can be done. Having to break on smooth road with gravel patches in the stopping area for example. Do you think this is the sort of training that anyone here or elsewhere would be interested in?


  14. OMG! If that is in writing, keep that mate - perfect example of how the government in general is ignorant of the real issues behind motorycle accident figures.

    Speed doesn't cause most accidents, but in almost all cases where the rider is at fault, this kind of training to address skill issues would all but eliminate the 'stats' which plague us.

    Good to here you did the course, now for an insurance company to reward you for it with lower premiums.
  15. sounds wicked carthy!, baskerville? wheres that not up near symmonds plains is it?
    Good on ya, i'll have to nail it once P's are done :D oh boi! i luuuuv motorbikes, gettin all excited jsut thinking about it :D:D:D
  16. Exactly whats required, and actually another reason why baskerville is so good. The track is in pretty poor condition, badly patched in some places, reverse camber, on our day there was gravel over one part of teh circuit as the grass ( :shock: more like dead weed and rock) was mowed and sprayed onto a part of track.

    A track is the best of both worlds, as you can use water and sand/gravel to simulate conditions, then use blowers or even street sweepers to remove the "hazard" later.

    Anyways, thats wot I reckon :wink:

  17. Nah mate, Baskerville is just behind Old Beach/Otago bay, Eastern shore of the Derwent, 'bout 15 minutes from your place.
    You don't need to wait for P's, Learners are allowed to play.

    But I'm sure they only run one a year at baskerville :(
    Anyways, go here http://www.srct.org.au/index_frames.htm, cos they organise ride days at baskerville every month.

    Hows yer bike?

  18. is there any other advance course apart from stayupright in NSW/sydney?