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across wont start in the mornings

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' at netrider.net.au started by ben1, May 11, 2009.

  1. hi all,

    i know this has prolly been asked 100 times but....



    my across will not start in the mornings i normally have to push start it and that still isnt 100% effective.

    i was just wondering what could be the cause of this?

    battery, carbs etc...?

    p.s the bike will normally start as the temp in the weather warms up.

    any help is appreciated

    thanks

    ben...
     
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  2. More information required - read the sticky!

    What bike? How old?

    What happens when you press the starter? A click? Engine turns over (quickly or slowly?) but doesn't fire?

    Are you using the choke correctly (as per owner's manual)? Are you using it correctly when you try to push start it?

    When did the problem start? Did it gradually get worse or happen all of a sudden?

    When was the battery last replaced? Do you have a multimeter? How many volts does the battery have?

    Wild stab in the dark, given the lack of information, but I will put my internet money on a very nearly dead battery. If you want better than that, answer the questions!
     
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  3. its a suzuki across 93 model

    the engine fires the 1st time but shuts down with in a second, then its just wont fire a gain and just churns.

    after about a while of trying churning stops and then theres just a nerrrrr nerrrrr sound, which iam guessing is the battery dieing, although when i connect the jumper it starts churning again but will not fire.

    when i try and push start it i chuck it in 1st roll it down the drive way once speed builds up i release clutch.


    could it be the spark plugs?
    where are the plugs located?
     
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  4. Sounds like plugs. Maybe you have a dodgy fuel tap and it leaks overnight into the chamber and when you fire it, it saturates the plugs? When it does go again eventually, does it spit out lots of black smoke for a few seconds?

    My bandit used to do this and it also shot out the unburnt fuel, so a friend found out when I rang it's neck and he was behind it.
     
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  5. yeh it does blow the black smoke out when i eventually get it going.

    so do i need to replace the plugs?
     
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  6. You may be flooding it by using full choke. Try not using choke until she's fired up, then apply as needed.
     
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  7. im not using the choke,
     
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  8. opening the throttle ?
     
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  9. Correct procedure:

    Full choke, dont touch the throttle. If you touch the throttle it will just flood and die.

    "half - way" choke is a bit funny on these older bikes. I can only get it to start with half choke when the bike is slightly warm, but not cold.

    if the bike has been sitting overnight just use full choke
     
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  10. still nothing,

    if i get it started should i take it to a mech?
     
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  11. As painful as it sounds, next time you park the bike for the night turn the fuel tap off or disconnect it from the tank. Reconnect it in the morning and see if the bike fires, if it does, you need a new washer/gasket set for the fuel tap.
     
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  12. finally got the bike started,

    thanks all for trying to help.

    so any1 think i should take it to the mechanic? i mean i leaving for work at 7:30am so i cant really try for hours to get the thing started every morning.
     
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  13. It probably needs a good clean, the spark plugs may be gunked up from all the cold cranking and unburnt fuel if youve been having trouble starting it
     
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  14. Well, it isn't your battery, but if you keep doing that churning until it wont churn any more, you will soon need a new battery anyway. Batteries don't like being nearly completely discharged like that.

    The problem is probably fuel based though. Take the advice above, clean the spark plugs, or replace them, and use the choke not the throttle to start. You may have to learn how and when to reduce the choke when it first fires, so that it will continue to run. Something like:

    Twist the throttle to fully open, then release.
    Put the choke on full.
    Hit the starter.
    When it fires, reduce the choke to a quarter (or half), and give it a little throttle.
    When it warms, turn the choke fully off, and let it idle with no throttle.

    Something like the above is required for some carburettor engines. Especially if they are left out in the cold and damp weather!

    Mind you, a weak battery can give symptoms similar to fuel problems, so it wouldn't hurt to fully charge your battery. Cold weather makes weak or partly discharged batteries worse.
     
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  15. It certainly does sound like you are getting too much fuel after the bike has been sitting for a while. If this problem occurs when the bike has been sitting only for a few minutes then it could be something else, but here is my little essay anyway:

    Here's how to deal with it in the short term:
    If the bike won't start, don't simply keep on pressing the starter button. You will drain your battery (again, shortening its life) and burn out your starter motor.

    Twist the throttle all the way around. This is called Wide Open Throttle (or WOT). Now press the starter button. All the excess fuel will be expelled until you have just the right amount of fuel, and then it should fire. Close the throttle immediately to avoid having the engine go waaaay too fast (not good at all when the bike is cold - the oil drains to the bottom of the engine and does not protect properly until the bike is warm). It may need to turn over for quite a while to get rid of the extra fuel. Do this in short bursts to avoid damage to the starter motor.

    Now that it has started, ride to work making sure you get the engine spinning nice and fast for a little bit to clean the plugs (not the best way to clean the plugs, but the most fun).

    Now, to fix the problem:
    Envy-t could well be right, or at least half right. The fuel tap issue only lets your problem become obvious.
    The carburettor has a little reservoir for fuel, and a valve that stops fuel flowing from the tank once the reservoir is full. Something is quite possibly wrong with this valve, meaning too much fuel gets through making your bike difficult to start. When your bike is running, it is always using fuel, so fuel is meant to be getting past the valve anyway, so you don't notice the problem.

    The fuel tap also stops fuel flowing when the engine is not running, by means of a diaphragm that deteriorates. It is probable that this has failed too, so fuel can flow to the faulty valve in the carburettor, in turn flooding the engine.

    The fuel tap issue is easy to fix, and has been explained already. The carburettor issue can probably be fixed simply by taking it apart and cleaning, but this goes beyond my knowledge (because I've never needed to clean one!).

    Given you've said this:
    I will guess that you are new to motorcycle maintenance. If you are keen to learn read this website, buy a basic book that explains how a four stroke engine works, a workshop manual for your bike, and then fix these two issues. If you have no interest in learning about your bike, cleaning the carb is probably more trouble than it's worth, just take it to a mechanic.
     
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  16. maybe its tired. try putting some v or metho in the tank :)
     
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  17. Turn off your fuel tap when leaving it for any length of time my old boat anchor tended to have starting probs when I forgot! Oh & keep it serviced regularly & try to avoid running it out of fuel!
     
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  18. just an update,

    ive taken it to the mechanics and he has ruled out plugs & battery, and has told me its the carbies,he's going to pull them out to see what the problem is exzactly but has told me the bike is running pretty rough..

    know he said is will cost me approzimatly $250 to fix, does this seem resonable?
     
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  19. Sounds ok to me, but I'm guessing it just needed a good clean out?
     
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  20. This sounds like worn slide clips, these things cost about $20 and 1/2 an hour to replace yourself, $250 is unreasonable if this is all that the problem is.
    The clips have a tendency to wear out after around 40,000 Ks, which makes the bike run rich, fouls the plugs, and makes it a ba$#&rd to start.

    Check out this website for all the info:
    http://au.geocities.com/ozcross250/holder.html
     
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