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VIC Accident advice?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by AhrimaaN, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. OK well this is in VIC so basically I'm in my mates quiet suberban street, doing a three pointer uey (no space to do one without) and I'm happy backpedalling perpendicular to the road, when a RAV 4 crunches into the back of me, by reversing out of her driveway straight into me, crunching my tail light, and minor fairing underneath the rear cowl with the spare wheel on her 4WD.

    She gets out, I stop the bike and inspect the damage and swap details etc.

    Now I need some clarification as to who is likely to be at fault for this.
    As far as I see it I am on the road, legally able to do a u-turn as there is no solid white line in the middle, and she is coming out of her carport, meaning I have right of way? We both 'backed into eachother' but to be realistic I wasn't moving at all, at the end of my backpedal about to accelerate forward to complete the turn when she crunched me. I have photos of exactly how we were at collision (neither of us moved) showing her clearly backing out of her driveway, still on the crossover, with me pretty much smack bang in the middle of the road, perpendicular to the direction of travel.

    Of course I would rather claim this if I am not at fault (I suspect about maximum $4-500 damage on my end) however if I am at fault i'll just write it off and get the pieces I need no worries.

    What do you guys think?

    Is giving the insurance photos too much information etc?

    Thanks in advance for your advice...

    Attached Files:

  2. Re: Old biddie backed into me as I was doing a 3 pointer... advice?

    As you say you were on the road. She was entering it. Both your insurances will try and put you both at fault so they can claim the excess twice.
    Stand your ground with them.
  3. Re: Old biddie backed into me as I was doing a 3 pointer... advice?

    Nup, she's at fault so you're good as gold. Someone might be able to find the relevant legislation, but i believe it's actually illegal to reverse out of your driveway.

    ISCN would be able to find it.
  4. Re: Old biddie backed into me as I was doing a 3 pointer... advice?

    I would be careful of saying you were reversing and leave it at stating you were making a U turn. The rule that applies I guess is:

    Road Safety Road Rules 2009 (PDF)

    296 Driving a vehicle in reverse
    (1) The driver of a vehicle must not reverse the
    vehicle unless the driver can do so safely.
    Penalty: 3 penalty units.
    (2) The driver of a vehicle must not reverse the
    vehicle further than is reasonable in the
    Penalty: 3 penalty units.

    and also Rule 74 about entering a roadway

    74. Giving way when entering a road from a road related area or adjacent land

    (1) A driver entering a road from a road related area, or adjacent land,
    without traffic lights or a stop sign, stop line, give way sign or give way
    line must give way to-

    (a) any vehicle travelling on the road or turning into the road (except a
    vehicle turning right into the road from a road related area or
    adjacent land); and

    (b) any pedestrian on the road; and

    (c) any vehicle or pedestrian on any road related area that the driver
    crosses to enter the road; and

    (d) for a driver entering the road from a road related area-

    (i) any pedestrian on the road related area; and

    (ii) any other vehicle ahead of the driver's vehicle or approaching from
    the left or right. Penalty: 5 penalty units. Notes 1. Adjacent land,
    give way line, stop line and traffic lights are defined in the
    dictionary, and road related area is defined in rule 13. 2. Adjacent
    land or a road related area can include a driveway, service station or
    shopping centre-see the definitions of adjacent land and road related
    area. Some shopping centres may include roads-see the definition of
    road in rule 12.

    So on that basis you can claim it was not safe for her to reverse at the time and that she did not give way while entering a roadway.
  5. Re: Old biddie backed into me as I was doing a 3 pointer... advice?

    Unfortunately Rule 38 says when making a U-turn you must give way to all other vehicles and pedestrians.
    Looks like damage on the car so there may be a claim against you.
    Not sure what rule it is but the web site says

    Entering or leaving the road
    Whenever you enter the road from a driveway or adjacent land (or when entering a driveway from the road), you must give way to all vehicles and pedestrians.


    Should be fun to resolve.

    edit its rule 74.
  6. Re: Old biddie backed into me as I was doing a 3 pointer... advice?

    Ok then based on Rule 38, 74 and 296 looks like it may be an apportioned blame case then. Your insurance and hers will come to an agreement on percentage blame between you and her. It would probably be cheaper to not make a claim and fix it yourself. Depending on your excess. Unfortunately her insurance will probably make a claim against you.
  7. Re: Old biddie backed into me as I was doing a 3 pointer... advice?

    Well I did my own search and it looks a hellova lot like an urban myth the oldies use to tell themselves, so ignore this rubbish.

    In the meantime have a look at this...


  8. Re: Old biddie backed into me as I was doing a 3 pointer... advice?

    Just out of interest, what did she about the accident? Exact words as you recall them.
  9. Re: Old biddie backed into me as I was doing a 3 pointer... advice?

    I'd doubt there'll be any claim against AhrimaaN.

    It's true that making a U turn you must give way to everyone.
    But everyone on the road.
    Car came from a driveway (and failed to check behind) and has to give way to everyone as well including AhrimaaN who was on the road.

    It's clear cut really.
  10. Re: Old biddie backed into me as I was doing a 3 pointer... advice?

    Well typical old nana - her response was 'what were you doing there?', she thought it would be my fault 'as was reversing' - I didn't say a thing. Obviously she backed into me from her driveway over the gutter/dip, causing her spare wheel to hit my tail.

    I think in my mind that me being on the road gives me the clear advantage, but I will read the rules carefully - I do not want an apportioned case when I think this will clearly cost less than my excess to fix. Her car is beaten up and has dents all over it - I'm not really expecting a claim against me. She said she did the exact same thing to a car parked opposite her crossover... so... take that as you will...

    as an aside, a colleague who lives in the building with her (who I was visiting) saw the whole thing...
  11. Re: Old biddie backed into me as I was doing a 3 pointer... advice?

    I take that as a reason to take her keys off her :LOL:

    Fair dinkum.

    Call your insurance on Monday, explain the situation and see what they say. If they tell you you're not at fault and wont have to pay excess, go for it.
  12. Re: Old biddie backed into me as I was doing a 3 pointer... advice?

    It's not illegal to back out of a driveway. But you do have to give way to all and everything when entering a road. ie coming out of a driveway.
    Same as when you do a U turn.
    You were preparing to do a U turn, checking traffic both ways, and the elderly lady reversed out of her drive and backed into you before you could get out of the way. How she could not see or hear you/me is unfathonable.
    The insurance as I said will try and throw the blame both ways to cover some of the cost.
    Stand you ground as long as you can.
    The banking and insurance Ombudsman is in Melb. One call from them usually settles it. BUt it will take a dozen calls from you to them to get them to act.
    And the police will not get involved either as no one was hurt.
  13. Re: Old biddie backed into me as I was doing a 3 pointer... advice?

    Because it's less that your excess I would consider sending a letter of demand yourself. She may just pay as it may be less than her excess as well and then your insurance company won't play the both responsible excess grab game.

    If it doesn't work then claim.
  14. #14 cjvfr, Dec 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2014
    Vertical C makes a good point. For advice on Letters of Demand see this thread
  15. you had finished backpedalling anyway when she backed into you.
    It's plainly her fault as she did not see you.
    You don't have to tell anyone that you were doing a 3 point turn, you were stopped and she backed into your rear.
  16. Also provided your bike doesn't have a reverse gear, it is going to be difficult for them to claim you did damage by reversing.
  17. yes reversing at less than walking pace will not damage much at all let alone a car so all the damage done was by the car reversing into the bike.
    ie car reversing at 15 kmh backs into a bike back pedalling at 0.3 kmh
    total collision impact 15.3 kmh
    (note these figures are a wild wild wild estimate of speeds.)
  18. Thanks guys - I think I will just ring up the insurance tomorrow and have a chat and likely I will make the claim.
  19. Do not call your insurance and let them know just yet.

    It could cause problems if you find out its cheaper to fix it privately.
  20. HI, dont quote road rules as they refer to criminal matters and its a different law.
    I worked in Insurance and did motor vehicle accidents for 17 years.
    She reveresed out of a driveway into a main carriageway. Accidents are treated as civil matters and the onus is on the reversing car into a main carriageway. End of story. Doesnt matter if you were doing a 3 point turn, reversing, irrelevant, you have right of way at all times.Its up to her to keep a proper lookout at all times.
    The insurance company will treat it as each bear own. However the problem is , if she has an exccess , the insurance company wont handle it until she pays the excess. If there is no damage to her car, she most likely wont. Hence the Ins company will say each bear own until it gets a claim from yourself.
    Yes, call your insurance company tell them what happened and they may treat it as a faultless claim and repair the bike, and you go on yr way and they chase her and settle it however, but who cares, you have a faultless claim. If they say no, then send her a quote and demand payment. keep your photos and try to have one of were u were and her driveway , paying particular interest if there are any trees blocking her view as she reverses.