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A touchy subject, Matty Johns

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by hornet, May 12, 2009.

  1. Apart from the usual smarmy ABC moralising because the subject works for another network, I'm in two minds about the Matthew Johns affair.

    On the one hand the morals and behaviour of our elite sportsmen (when is someone going to peep into the morals and behaviour of our elite sportsWOMEN??) is pathetic, to say the least. Booze (and possibly drugs) is always the common factor, and an unchanging belief that because they are who they are, the rules of society, and even the law, do not apply to THEM, seems to underpin most of what they do. And what else goes on that we don't (and probably WON'T ) hear about doesn't bear thinking about.

    BUT, it's surely pretty impossible for a woman who has consensual sex with six men to claim later that she was traumatised by it, AND BLAME THE MEN for the trauma??? Surely the trauma, if it exists, is a consequence of the actions SHE chose to take at the time? That she now regrets it, is understandable, but we all have to live with the consequences of the actions we take, rightly or wrongly.

    And I wonder if this woman would be making a similar claim if the participants had been the local "D" grade team, not international stars of the game?
  2. couldnt agree more. As for your wondering, theres no wondering about whether she would of got any publicity (and perhaps $$ from notoriety) if it had been a gangbang with the local team. Call me a cynic but I suspect after 7 years she is after the $$/fame not the emotional healing.

    Boo to the ABC for digging up old dirt that has been investigated by the authorities and dismissed. Next thing they be having Lindy and Michael Chamberlain back in court :roll:
  3. I don’t see why people have to pry into his life so deeply. Playing football at an elite level shouldn't mean that his personal life is open for all to see.

    Im sure that there are plenty of women and men who consent to the exact same sexual acts that took place (i can recall hearing of a few such occasions happening with friends from school) - should they, and all others with "non-normal" sexual practices be paraded through the media?

    Can't really blame the woman though..... She probably told the story to a friend, and it probably snowballed from there to the current media storm. Not like she can say i was consenting and had a great time, otherwise she would be cast down by all of the morally righteous for not being of the same mindset, along with the males.

    I think personal affairs should stay private - i don’t understand the fascination of the general public with other peoples lives.

    my 2c.

  4. I agree with Lucius.

    I purposely didn't watch the show.
  5. I which case you can't really comment on the show.

    Paul, I didn't hear any moralising about Johns because he worked for a competing network. If you did, can you care to point it out for us all?

    Did you actually watch the program with an open mind though, or did your well publicised dislike of the ABC somehow influence your own opinion?

    The programs main thrust was what is wrong with a sporting code that actively encourages group sex as a male bonding experience? It made no comment about whether a sexual assault took place, but did make it clear that some of these women were clearly not willing participants and that they only didn't make a formal complaint because the burden of proof in a sexual assault case is unfortunately on the female.

    The program also made the point that these men could easily get confused about what women where for, when it's clearly shown that there are lots of groupies who ARE willing.

    Most telling was the Knights training excercise with their <20yr team. For those that didn't watch the program, the excercise shows a woman, clearly intoxicated, duped into sex with a player. Then another video of a clearly intoxicated male, who has sex with another male. Their responses show that taking advantage of a drunk woman was culturally ok, but taking advantage of a drunk male was a crime. There were a few light bulbs going off (but not many), but that was blown away by a response from a player at the end who thought that group sex with a woman was ok, as long as you got her a cab home afterwards.

    BTW, John's apology on Ch9 was to his family. He never mentioned the alleged victim.

    We have a large body of males, who are young, cashed up and idolised. It's very easy for them to believe their own press release and not realise that that doesn't give them carte blanche to do whatever they want.
  6. I dont understand, was she r@ped or not? The articles so no charges were laid at the time but nowhere do I see any allegations of a sexual assault.

    If it is what it looks like, then too bad for her. The kind of person that screws a whole bunch of footballers strikes me as the kind of person that knows that they can profit off the ordeal.

    I think most guys have even been through a situation where they felt as though they were taken advantage of. You just accept you did something stupid and chalk it up to experience.

    Besides, who on earth tells the WHOLE WORLD about what they did for emotional healing?
  7. Did you watch the program?

    And it wasn't one woman. There were various examples showing of a culture of excessive drinking and a total disrespect for women. There was the case of a barmaid who was used by a large group of players. She didn't consent. Then the woman who's room was opened by a player and she was mounted, but not raped. And then the Manly team who were pissed at their season opener and a player who slapped a sponsor, after insulting his daughter. Then of course there's the incident with Stewart and then alleged sexual assault. Seeing a pattern here?

    If it was your sister or daughter, would you be so dismissive? fcuk me, what's wrong with a culture that thinks that a group of team mates fcuking a drunk woman is somehow acceptable? I mean, if you go out with your co-workers to a pub, find a drunk girl, would you take her to a hotel room and fcuk her, along with all your mates? I am a sexual liberal and all is fair in love and war, but group sex with your co-workers? And what if this activity was encouraged by your boss? Sorry, there's just something very wrong with that concept.

    Perhaps we really haven't moved beyond the idea that drunk women are up for it and if they're off their heads, somehow anything and everything is ok. There is a whole world of difference between group sex between consenting adults, none of whom are intoxicated and one where the main participant is pissed off their head.

    And you wonder why women don't pursue cases of sexual assault?
  8. Cejay, I am not commenting on the show, but the issue. This stuff has been in the public domain for a while now.
  9. Fair enough.
  10. Self-irresponsibility is a dangerous path. I dont go out and hunt down drunk women because Im not some predator, also on the other hand if I go out, I make sure Im not drunk enough that I would put myself in dangerous situations.

    If a woman gets drunk then goes off with a bunch of footballers and has sex with them, that doesnt strike me as taking responsibility for yourself. All parties are acting irresponsibly, but lets stop passing the blame hey?

    Look at what its doing in America. Some campus advocates actually want to bring in laws that make women only, who have consumed alcohol, legally incapable of consenting to sex.

    Im sure you can see the where the problem leads with irresponsibility
  11. perhaps afterwards they should have put her in a taxi and sent her home and it would have been fine. :idea:

  12. I agree that this particular guy shouldn't have his career ruined by this, particularly at this late stage. But I'd like to hope that even if I was very drunk and away on a footy trip I'd have too much respect for *myself* to participate in something like this. Perhaps as well as (re)instilling respect for women there needs to be some work on self-respect and high personal standards for the players.
  13. A drunk person, by definition, is incapable of informed consent. Put in a room of 6 or more men, all 100kg plus, all taking turns fcuking her isn't a fair comparison. We're talking about human decency.

    The program was talking about the culture of the game and teams that either expressly condone, or turn a blind eye to these offences. A game where getting off your head is the only acceptable way to wind down.

    If these players want to be treated like the elite athletes they claim they are, perhaps there's nothing wrong with learning not to get blind drunk everytime you go out? And a culture that says it's ok for a bunch of co-workers (some of whom have wives and girlfriends) to go out, get blind drunk, find a drunk girl, take her back to an apartment and then fcuk her in turns. With your co-workers FFS! Ewww.
  14. What ever happened to common sense? Regardless of whether she was drunk or not she must have had the desire to do it - walls of inhibition drop further with every drink for some people.

    Rather than take responsibility for her own actions she is blaming others - ie: playing the victim. Dont get me wrong, the guys were just as messed up in this case.

    I think its pathetic that she CHOSE this and is now trying to cash in on her own stupidity.

    As for the meatheads who think its fun to "bond" in that way... damn they must be pretty damn lousy in the sack if they need their team mates cheering them on!
  15. Totally with you, Bravus.

    I wouldn't let 6 football players shag me, either.
  16. I facepalmed so hard when I heard that kid at the end talk about how putting a girl in a taxi after a group sex session makes it okay. That whole sequence, watching their reactions when confronted with the homosexual assault as opposed to the hetero assault, was astounding. The fact that they saw no correlation was incredible!

    One of them actually said "yeah, but the man didn't ask for it"

  17. The NZ girl I presume you are referring to went back to a hotel room with 2 players. The police officer investigating the case described her as not very worldly and naive. Before she knew it, a total of 12 players turned up. She never agreed to sex with any of them, however, that is extremely difficult to prove. She is most definitely the victim.

    The Manly case is still under a criminal investigation. The college student had her room door opened by a player she never invited in and woke to find him straddling her. The sponsors daughter wasn't in any sexual situation, but commented on the players drunk state.

    Sirian, as a female, I'd expect you to be quite aware of the difficulty for any female to proceed with a case of sexual assault. It's hard enough to prove in any case, even more so when a woman can be portrayed as a slut and a tart.

    Also, unless you know and can prove otherwise, she is not CASHING in on anything. She didn't chose this time to report it, it was reported at the time. It's only now that the ABC compiled all the reports into one program.
  18. As a woman - and one who doesn't, I guess, put it all on show... I find the behaviour of a lot of girls my age or even younger (or older) to be absolutely appalling... not feminine. Not classy. Not nice. And there are things that women can do to protect themselves and reduce their chances of being the target of some idiot bloke's sexual interest. That includes being concious of how many drinks you're having and keeping it to a level where you are still in control of yourself. And being aware of how much skin you want to have on show.

    Similarly, I think the behaviour of so many men is also totally unacceptable and they think, if it's on offer, well they're a warm blooded male, how can they be expected just to 'switch off' if she doesn't want to give it to him anymore? na, she's just playing the game, she really wants it but she's just playing the game.. so off they go. And there you have it. Stupid female + stupid male...

    Having said that. If sex is not consensual, it's not the fault of the girl and I would never suggest that and she deserves support from the people around her, and the man is a criminal. When girls are just being friendly and social and they are taken advantage of... well yea.

    I just think alcohol companies shouldn't be allowed to sponsor league at all. The two things are synonymous and maybe if they weren't we wouldn't have anywhere near as many problems.
  19. Even if a woman does agree to sex - and lets face it some of them do - a man should think very carefully about what the result will be and what will she do afterwards. But some men can't think beyond the next 5 minutes when put in that situation...