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A question on mobile police radars??

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by generalyuehfei, May 1, 2006.

  1. Just a hallway discussion today with a colleague at work - we were discussing the unmarked police cars that have a radar mounted on the drivers side of the car. Sure enough they will have the capability these days to read your speed both front and back - although the sticky point was - I have always thought they 'never' had the capability to take a photograph - ie. if they are travelling in the opposite direction and you are fanging it as you go passed, they would read your speed although have to turn around and pull you over.

    Is this correct or do they have speed cameras mounted on the cars and active? I found the latter technically hard to achieve based on the fact you are dealing with radar technology, mobile and ever changing environments and hence synchronisation issues as to when the photograph is taken....

    I know they have video capability although I can't imagine the resolution to be good enough to capture a number plate especially in dim foresty roads. There is also the issue of the police car travelling at 60km/h in opposing direction to your 'say' hypothetically 120km/h - this is a net 180km/h of which your plate is to be recognised...

    In QLD they have the mobile vans although they are setup in a single location and synchronised with a target area.

    Any thoughts??? Sorry for the long winded post although I was typing my thoughts as they came (although I did edit the thoughts about the blonde that walked passed my desk a minute ago - so it could have been longer)

    Regards, Nick
  2. Interesting queries brought up here. However i think the video technology these days is plenty good enough to capture you plates. I mean look at the cameras on GP and the like. They can be travelling at 300km/h and you can still make out signs, peoples, advertising, hotdog stands etc off in the background off a still frame from the vid. Not to mention the video used at airshows and the like with planes travelling at each other incredible speeds and you can still make stuff out.

    Show how long ago did this happen to you and where was it???
  3. I can help you on this one. NSWP vehicles are fitted with 'Silver Eagle II' doppler radar that can be used on a moving or stationary vehile. The police can also use the tripod-mounted 'Lidar II' device, however this means they have to set it up on the footpath to operate it. Occasionally you wil see a police vehicle (usually a station wagon) parked at an angle on the sie of the road. This is likely to be operating a VMS (vehicle mounted speed) camera. These cameras can not be used while the car is in motion as the operator has to park the vehicle at a specific angle to the road and then undertake the setup procedure.

    The video I believe you are referring to is the ICV (in car video) system that was introduced to a lot of NSWP vehicle a couple of years ago. It is mainly to record anything that goes on between the officer and the driver/rider once they are pulled over. It is not used usually to determine that an offence has occured, though it may be tendered by police as supoporting evidence. If you are ever pulled over and the police vehicle has an ICV unit running, the officer will caution you that the conversation is being recorded. Otherwise it's not admissable as evidence. Also, you have the right to view the ICV footage at the station where the officer is based.

  4. It's camera's like that that allow TV programmes such as "America's Wildest Police Video's" to exist.
  5. What's the legislation that covers this? As far as I'm aware, any surveillance didn't need the permission or notification of the surveillees in order to be legal or allowed as evidence.
  6. I think it's basic evidentiary requirements - in order to conduct surveillance, police need a warrant or the like to do so. Given they have no such warrant when they are filming you, that can't be used as evidence, unless they get your permission (albeit indirect - if you asked them to turn it off, I doubt they would :) ). I could be wrong but that is my understanding.
  7. can the cops make out your plate in the rear view mirrors if your flying past them and know a couple of good side roads that you can take to avoid them when they turn around?

    and if so can they send you a fine based on the fact that they saw you speeding
    (like with a speed camera) or do the physically have to pull you over and issue you with a ticket?

    I know this is very similar to the question generalyuehfei asked

    But I want to know if they can do it based of the fact that they saw your speed at (ill use 120 like he did) after they adjusted for the speed they where doing. And if there’s two cops and one turns around (in his chair) and copies down your plate while the other one is chucking a uie
    And if they don’t catch up with you can they issue a ticket based on the fact that one of them copies it down into his little black book.
    Or do they need photographic evidence?
  8. Cops can issue you a ticket even though they never saw you. If you pay it you accept guilt. If you challenge it, they must prove in court that you were speeding.

    Some guy in NSW a while back argued successfully that a speed camera picture did not prove he was speeding, it was just a picture of his car.
  9. How fast was the blonde traveling when see pasted your desk?. :LOL:

    I got a question since we're on the subject.

    Last week at 10pm at night I seen a cop standing with a "hand held radar gun"
    ,i was doing 72kph ,in a 60 zone .{I know... I know im a rebel} :LOL:

    Do the hand held radar guns take pictures???
    I ask this becuase he was in a spot where there couldn't be another cop to pull you over down the road ....as 100 meter up the road the road turns into 3 different roads.

    It was double demerit points ,it's worrying me. :oops:
  10. I haven't head of a hand radar that takes photos. I think your safe if he didn't chase you.
  11. The hand helds are normally laser guns and are meant to be accurate at up to 5km. These don't take pic's, but alot pf the time operate as 1 man units, they will sight you up the road and if your were speeding pull you over.

    I do know of someone in QLD that was given a ticket for racing on the M1, basically the police came round his house with a video and gave him a ticket/summons. I believe that they can now take video from un marked cars and then issue tickets court orders later. Normally this only for specific times eg the racers on the m1, as the police are in a un marked car and don't want to give away their presence.
  12. Thanks for all the replies... In any situation I believe, there needs to be an effort made to inform you that you have passed through a device that detects your speed - this is true for fixed cameras as they have signage all over the place, this is true for mobile vans in QLD as they have a sign further down the road once you have passed the unit (in case you missed the big white van you passed), this is true for when police detect you speeding and pull you over to issue you a ticket.

    This is why the story my colleague told me today was perplexing because he passed this same car on two occasions in the same day while fanging it. Apparently there is a sticker or notice up at Road Warriors that says cops can get you in both directions - and that's where he has been sh1tting himself ever since. I told him although the radar may be capable of 'detecting in either direction, the capability of a photograph from the same 'mobile' unit is near impossible for technical and legislative reasons.

    Thanks nudenut35 for the accurate comments - always impressed when people know the latest hardware being used out there. I will forward those off to him and he may calm down a bit I thinnk.

    Regards, Nick
  13. You would have been pulled over and issued a ticket.... no probs mate

    About the blonde, only clocked her from behind although have replayed the memory at a speed that brings a smile to my face always
  14. lol - havnt you guys watched myth busters?
    they had a thing on that pommy car show on SBS where they took a car and went past at 160mph (i think) and the camera didnt flash
  15. Interestingly the original prototype cameras where handheld, this was to allow them to be aimed properly at the offending vehicle.

    I saw one being tested (played with) at Sandown 10 or more years ago during a V8 event there and the guy was even able to print the pictures with the speed (230+ km/h) imprinted on it similar to the pictures we get when done by a camera these days. The guy using it wanted to test it on high speed objects instead of the usual highway & suburban speeds it had been tested on so far :roll:
  16. In VIC we have no such luxury. The best you can hope for is a "Road Safety Camera In Area" sign, but most fixed cameras don't even have these. Mobile cameras are attached to random cars, and are completely unmarked. The only time it's obvious it's a camera car is when the cop is in a shiny highway patrol car pointing his hairdryer at you. If you were speeding, it's too late by the time you see him.

    As for getting done in both directions by the same mobile unit: been there, done that. 64km/h and 67km/h in a 60km/h zone, thankyou very much. :p Times were separated by about 2 hours - I saw a movie at the cinema, and got done on the way and on the way back. Obviously this was in a car, and knowing the road (Nepean Hwy) I would have just been following the traffic speed. Bastard must of got hundreds of people. :p
  17. hay dose any one know if its ok for undercover cops to tail gate you to try to make you speed up then book you

    I had this guy in a new commodore sitting behind me pushing me along and I was about to show him what I could do...

    But then I noticed the weirs in the grill
    And something sitting on the dash
    I was very lucky to see them in my tiny little mirrors so I left it as late as possible and Trind off and gunned it up a side street and got away from him

    Then the next day I saw him with some poor car pulled over in the exact spot where he was doing it to me.
  18. Also all this stuff about in QLD we have clearly marked speed busses well ive never seen them we got 4wd’s with a cop strip on the side that they park any where they can.
    Usually half way around a blind corner.

    Which I find very dangerous cause when you see a car on the side of the road you slow down to see if they need help and this can cause accidents

    Well that’s my 2c worth on the subject
    But there’s defiantly no warning signs and there not there to make people slow down to make it safer there just revenue rasing.
  19. The hand held devices are radar units, similar to those mounted on the HWP cars. In addition to getting the reading the officer must also make a visual observation and record anything they see on the bottom of the penalty notice (called their contemporaneous notes). You guys don't get to see these comments as the version that is handed to you has details for making payment in the same spot. Basically they record your comments, traffic conditions, speed recorded etc. The operators maual for Radar Devices states that they must maintain a continuous lock on the target vehicle until the device emits a constant warning tone - a bit like getting radar lock. Lidar devices are usually mounted on tripod, though they can be hand held. They require the operator to look through a 'head up display' and, again, maintain a constant lock for several seconds. Neither device takes photos.

    Under NSW law (s23 Fines Act 1996) paying a fine is no admission of liability to the offence. They specifically wrote that section in there so that people could later challenge offences even though they had paid them. Also, so that if you get a ticket for Negligent Driving and pay it, the other patry in the accident can't then claim that you have admitted liability.

    If police sight you speeding or committing some other offence they have to first establish the identity of the rider before they can either issue a ticket or lay charges. If the rider gets away police can not just charge the vehicle's owner unless they can satisfy a court that they were able to positively ID the person responsible. This is where they will turn up at your house th next day and make life miserable. Again, NSW law (Road Transport (General) Act) only allows speed camera and red light camera offences to be sent to the bike's owner.

    Finally, watch your mouth if you are ever pulled over. It's no accident that police will immediately ask you a 'leading' question such as "Any reason you were speeding'. If you answer it you are virtually guaranteed to admit to the offence in some way, which the police officer will then record on the bottom of the ticket (in the part you can't see). This will then become part of the evidence, best to say nothing at all.

    I realise this is War and Peace but you guys seemed interested and I happen to know a little about this stuff. Feel free to hit me with any questions if you like.

  20. One more thing you all may find interesting (sorry to hog the board) but the RTA fixed digital camera only photograph from the rear with the exception of (I think) 2 sites in NSW, one of which is Maitland Rd in Newcastle, can't recall the other. Red Light Cameras also only photograph from the rear, not the front. Look for the three grooves cut into the road about 15m in front of the camera location. This is where the piezo sensors are embedded in the road surface. However, NSWP vehicle-mounted cameras can photograph in either direction, so be wary. These are the ones you see parked on the side of the road with a "Speed Camera In Use' sign out, usually about 100m aftr you have gon past it.