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Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by rc36, Feb 3, 2010.
Don't know where I found this, a Pommy bike mag, I think, but it's pretty good.
Very interesting, thanks!
That's some mad lean angles for a streetbike! Can anyone tell what bike it is?
I believe a Triumph TT600.
Yep definitely a Triumph, those vents give it away
1, 2 (!) and 4 scares me.
Even though 3 is gimp (especially with how far his arse is off the sit), I prefer that or a combination of 3 and 5.
#2, of course, was the position favoured by Mick Doohan throughout most of his career.
Later in life, he adopted a more "conventional" style..
Well, there y'go. I just learned something. I've always just felt better sitting up like a jackass 'round hairpins and now I know why.
Always thought I was just deliberately being a d#$% but it turns out I was doing the right thing...
1 is when you feeling lazy and just wanna grind your peg back a bit more, though i think a cross between 3,4 & 5 is the best mix, although don't understand why they are so against 4, the rider has dropped his shoulder to the inside of the turn therefore should be counter steering into the turn
This was posted up a few years back - possibly by me?!? and Flux and other regulars of the time had a red hot discussion about it... CBF'd searching though...
No4 is splitting hairs IMO.
I'm more like a blend of #3, #4 & #5 I guess. Never had a problem with it. Works for me.
#2 worked for Doohan and Bayliss.
Go with whatever makes you feel comfortable and gives you confidence I say. Leave all the bickering to the self-appointed "experts".
Dutch rider Wil Hartog was a #2 exponent and it ALWAYS looked just weird
I agree regarding No4. In fact I'm not sure I even agree with their prognosis on that one.
The rider's position relative to the centreline of the bike is exactly the same as #1, the recorded lean angle is exactly the same as #1.
While they aren't out as far horizontally (so they have to lean more to counteract the centripetal force/inertia couple with their weight), the centre of mass is lower to the ground, so the centripetal force/inertia couple is weaker (so they don't have to lean as much)
Ie: Probably no real difference. And their own result replicates that.
Edit: I also agree with Flux... I've seen pretty quick riders sit bolt upright while the bike leans beneath them, I've seen really slow riders hanging off... Though as an analysis of how to minimise lean angle, the article makes some sense.
I've seen really slow riders hanging off...
Those slow riders are emulating what they see without understanding the why... which introduces the whole poser thing...
Both bikes are traversing the same curve at the same speed and therefore the lean angle of the bike rider system is the same. The individual lean angles of the rider and bike are different in the diagram on the right. The bike leans less when you lean more.
The height of your Center of Gravity doesn't have any impact on the lean angle. The lean angle is established by speed and radius of your turn. The tighter the radius, or the faster the speed, the greater the bike needs to lean (Let's not get into the why, or else F-L will bust a blood vessel again).
Height of the CG has an impact on the forces involved and dictates whether a bike is easier or harder to lean.
This flies completely in the face of figure 4.
I think the point about figure 4 is about the difference between getting off the seat and tuck in, Vs getting off the seat and pushing your body deeper into the corner to increase the angle effect of having the body angled off the bike.
If you see in diagrams 4 & 5 they have moved there COG just a little off the centre line of the bike in pic 5
For clarification. If you are cantered on the bike, then sitting up or tucking down, won’t make an ounce of difference (See Robs not on the height of the CoG)
But reaching towards the middle of the corner when off the line of the bike has some effect.
This being said. How much lean you have is only part of the equation.
To sit up that far away from the bike you have to straighten your arms, and moving your body around takes more force by your legs and worse yet could take more force from your arms.
So you get better angle (By the tiniest amount, but you sacrifice some control…)
mmmm..imho...#4 is more appropriate for cornering but in this specific example the rider is'nt really moving his body inside the line of the bike very much. It's much like 5 with his chest down on the tank.
Flux's shot on his trumpet shows a similar position to #4 BUT he is inside and down, (Unlike #4)
I ride in a somewhat similar fashion...(albeit not as well)..
The idea of sitting more upright but in the same relative position has crossed my mind, and I have tried it many times, but actually...I have felt no benefit to my regular riding style.