Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

45kmph corner + foot scrapes = how much more lean can i have

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by papermate, Dec 23, 2007.

  1. Hi - I rate my self as an amatuer to medium rider in terms of road craft and motorcylce capability. Although planning, i have not complete an advanced rider course or turning/breaking course. I ride every day to work and 3 times a month a long tour.

    But i wanted to ask.....

    Today I took the back way, through Windsor up to Singleton. Now the end of the trip coming to singleton there are some nice twistes which have corner regulated speed signs from 35/45/55 and obvious above corners within the 100kmph speed limit.

    Now, I've overcooked corners about 3 times before, (once at natio park, once at wisemans and once at jenolan caves) BUT by more luck than skill am still here. So Ive learnt my lesson and take it much more easy.

    Im entering the 35/45/55kmph corners at anywhere from 60 - 80/90 and although i know my knee down, bum of seat technique isnt perfect i make it around smooth enough.

    My problem is that after a chicane type 35/45kmph turn which involves a left turn/sweep then a right turn sweep my toes on my boots touch the ground. This never seems to happen if i enter the 35/45kmph turn that is just one turn going into a straight after- not progressing into a succession of immediate turns.

    Am i doing something wrong? Does it mean im leaning more - or am i approaching the maxium lean angle before i slide out?

    I wish that someone would video tape me from behind so i can analyse and improve.
  2. Your boot shouldn't ever scrape.. Put your toe higher up the peg. As you say, it only happens on chicanes? So probably just not putting it back up higher enough after weight shifting.

    - Netrider's slowest
  3. if you are touching down, then there isnt much more lean to go.
    your only options are to hang off more.
    my guess, as it happens on successive corners is that you arent weight shifting from side to side effectively, forcing you to use more lean in order to complete the turns.
    practice practice practice :)

    - Netriders Weekend Warrior
  4. if its happening in multiple successive corners, you may also be speeding up.
    like as you know you should accelerate out of a corner, well you accelerating out of each, without braking enough for the next. by the last corner, your entering at a higher speed than the first, thus your leaning the bike more to make the turn, thus the scraping. if your boot is scraping but not your peg, you need to bring your foot in further.
    then again, id rather scrape boot and use is as a warning sign, than scrape peg and risk losing the bike.

    - Netrider's 2nd cousin's dogwalker's mum's uncle, twice removed.
  5. If it happens in successive corners, it could mean that your suspension is beginning to sag or bounce around. Yes, you probably need either video or an experienced rider training person to help analyse what is going on.

    Get thine self to that holy of holies, an INSTRUCTED TRACK DAY !!! :grin: :grin: :grin:
  6. Where do you put your feet on the footpegs? Mine used to touch all the time until NR's helped me by telling me that if you put your toes on the footpeg they dont scrape.

    Also you may need to hang off the bike more to gain more clearance, it may take some practise in a chicane situation where you will have to move your body around quickly on the bike
  7. What bike do you ride, if it is low to the ground, you may have heaps of contact patch left.
  8. also depends what bike you ride too; sometimes putting your toe higher on the peg doesnt always work because it makes the riding position really awkward.

    the best thing is to ride wihtin your bike's limit. if you know it's going to scrap (whether its because of the bike or rider), it's sometimes easier just to ride within your limits instead of making it harder for yourself.

    for instance, i took a 45 corner (relatively easy corner) on a harley at the same speed as i would with my sports bike. end result: peg was scraping because the harley has a lower clearance. lesson: i took it easier once i realised the bike couldnt lean as much. easy
  9. I grew up riding trail bikes here and there, nothing consistant.

    However, my learning was 2 years on a ZX2R and I have been on a ZX6R 07 for about 3 months now. so its a sports bike.

    I was looking on you tube and there are some good vids of Putty Road with some nice lines. I was looking at the speed and god, i wasnt doing anything near that. I can see that guy rides with confidence, rather impressed. Fast and illegal however distinct trademarks of skill and safety within limits.

    Yes, I think i am speeding up a the end of the corner as i put the positive power on the exit, so that may explain.

    Yes, upon entering corners, i make a natural effort to place my tips of toes on my footpegs, however, this is not 100% of the time.

    No, I feel that im really moving a bit too slow on the bike shifting my weight, and dont feel the set up for the corner is absolutely right. In terms of confidence, sitting about 6/10 compared to the You Tube rider who I would rate very confident riding the road.

    so what is the recommendation for sydney based rider training?
  10. HART is the one I like. And theres one in st ives, so relatively close to me. Check their website for somewhere close to you.
  11. hart is okay for the basic stuff, but if you want to cover everything they do at HART plus more (ie cornering techniques), the superbike school would be a better option.


    i havent done either, but i've looked at both their offerings and reckon superbike school's a winner.

    alternatively, read twist of the wrist. i read that, and my riding skill sky rocketed.
  12. Yeah there are cornering and braking courses at oran park that you can do. I'm hoping to do one as soon as I can afford it :D
  13. I believe StayUpright also run courses at Oran Park. Bit cheaper than Superbikeschool too.
  14. so you are scraping your toes when your feet are up on the foot pegs? yeah i dont think you would get much more lean angle without hanging off the bike. BUT you could get much better corner speed depending on the line you take.
    personally i use my toesliders to judge how far over i am. and i dont hang off the bike, because i can comfortably brake deeper and accelerate earlier when my arse is planted on that seat. but horses for courses, some blokes are more concerned with outright corner speed, some are more concerend how long from A to B.
    tbo, save your money, i did HART handeling dynamics, although a good course in its own right, if a little too short. you are better off saving your money for stayupright advanced course. the advanced course is more roadcraft orientated. the superbike school is obviously more track orientated. take your pick.

    yeah the putty sure is a beaut road, if only 10 mile was actually 30 mile. if you want the mecca of roads in australia, its the oxely hwy from wauchope to walcha, this is the holy sacred shrine. unless you are keen youll be sick to death of having the bike cranked over for the 40 minutes it takes to accend the range. im getting a woody just thinking about it. :grin:
  15. Its possible you havent shifted your feet quick enough.

    I.e you might have the ball of your foot or the toes on the inside peg but when you have to transition, your feet arnt moving quick enough.

    Personally, I dont bother going nuts on longer rides. A lot of places dont have coverage and the tow back on a busted bike will be costly! You would be far better off doing track days.

    But to answer your question directly, keep an eye on your front tyre useage. If your balling them up all the way to the edge, your pushing the bike pretty hard.

    The back and front of my bikes been raised for more favouable geometry. The by product is extra clearance! The rear has been raised in a few ways, 55 profile tyre, stiffer spring and preload combo, Swing arm eccentric's. When my toes touch I generally dont want to go much faster
  16. I try to put weight in the relevant arse cheek..which I keep mainly on the seat but perhaps sometimes move it a little to the side. Stick hip out. Drop shoulder and elbow..belly to side of tank...upper bod back towards top of tank...something like that anyway. Outer knee is against tank..inner knee usually just sits lightly next to tank...no knee down for this girly.

    I've found after much mucking about with different techniques that this is what works for me and this is what I'm most comfy doing and what feels natural and RIGHT...for me.

    By putting my weight into my bum/dropping shoulder/sticking hip out I find I don't need to lean the bike as much for the speeds I'm doing.

    In the 'zigzag' type fo turns you mention, it sounds like you're not setting yourself up for each turn...eg..not getting the chance to weight transfer/shoulder down etc. Someone else also mentioned speed increasing with each turn..on corners I'll enter at a specific speed, increase through turn, decrease towards next turn, increase through turn, decrease towards next turn etc etc. This gives me a chance to do the weight thingy above.

    Get yourself to an advanced rider course....that'll sort ya! :)

    Esp that top section between the roadhouse and Singleton :grin: You NSW guys have got it made. Putty rd - Thunderbolts way - Oxley. I am jealous.

    Def the Wauchope to Walcha section - did Oxley on the way up and on the way back... miss it already. Of all teh rds I did these past 2 weeks, Oxley was most def my favorite. Beats any rd I've ever ridden :)

    So am I and I'm a girl. :? :LOL: