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30 mins from learners permit to death

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by incitatus, Apr 21, 2007.

  1. I am aware of the general policy on 'rider down' threads, but this one is different, and worthy of note in my opinion. How did this happen? What exactly was her instructor doing? Dead just 30mins after getting her learners permit FFS.


    For those outside WA, there is no off road compulsory training over here, a learners permit permits you to take instruction from another rider on public roads, and is granted after a written test only. A learner cannot ride unaccompanied by an instructor on the road. An instructor can be anybody who has held an unrestricted motorcycle license for at least four years
  2. geez thats not good advertising
  3. sounds like western australia's rider training system is shithouse to say the least. i don't know how you can blame the instructor, the woman probably suffered a case of target fixation and instead of hitting a wire fence or stack of tyres at a training facility she hit a tree.
  4. Agree, well worth discussing and terribly sad.

    At 44, obviously reflexes are not what they are when 20, especially when trying something new. The system here in NSW is now a riding test for L's and P's which is very worthwhile, beats the old ride around the block many of us did for P's - L's was wirtten and no supervision reuqired to ride on road.

    Intrigued by the Custom Motorcycle bit
  5. yes, just read about this :shock:

    um, still waiting for that link for the T&c's for posting about mc accidents, 'Hornet600'?

  6. Me too, particularly as she would have been restricted to 250cc. There are multiple issues here beyond the accident specifically, like the inconsistency in training across Australia. Time will tell us the specifics of this incident, but personally I have always been a little uneasy with the idea of the first time a learner riding, being on a public road. I suppose that means a case could be made that this should possibly have gone into 'Politics, Laws, and Government', but its 6pm and I'm tired after a heavy day, so if anybody feels it necessary. feel free to move/delete.
  7. I always wondered about the effects of WAs lax licencing now i know +1 for the NSW system coming from someone who had never riden before the pre Ls course was very good. Nice to see my tax/infringements going towards something worthwhile (course is government subsidised by more than $200 per person)
  8. I think she obtained a full license 30m before, based on the fact that: it says she obtained her license just 30m before accident, it says she obtained her learners the day before and it happened at t was 6pm

    And the WA rules sound much like the QLD ones. When I took the learners test I remember boggling at how passing such a gumby 5 mcq test (1 question was, paraphrased: You should wear motorcycle helmet (a) always (b) when you feel like it (c) only on days when its not too hot (d) ..., I don't exagerrate) was supposed to somehow certify me to fumble around on the road.
  9. Keep the talk to the rules and regulations and the politics of it rather than speculate on death and condolences and this thread will stay.
    As soon as it strays to condolences and speculation it will be pulled.
  10. There does seem to be an anomaly there, but I find it hard to believe she managed to obtain a learners permit, book a test, find an instructor who would accompany her to the testing center, and actually pass it, all in less than 24 hours?, particularly as there is normally a long waiting list for tests.This could of course be just another example of poor quality reporting.
  11. That's what I get halfway through the article ... no mention of a full licence at all.

    It does say at the start about having obtained a licence .. but even over here in Vic someone on a "Learners Permit" is still ... in general terms .. deemed to be a "licenced rider" as distinct from an "unlicenced rider", (ie: no licence at all).
  12. Question is, are any of our motorcycling licencing tests appropriate for preparing someone for the road?
    Which state has the best system?
    How can they be improved?
    Where will the inquiry of the accident lay the blame?
    Will it change policy?

  13. I find it really interesting that for me, one of the best things about my ridersafe course was that it put the fear of god into me. Had I just gone out there and learnt how to ride slow, do uturns and stop quickly, I don't think it would have prepared me as well as it did by adding the extras by the instructors where they tell you about the scary and bad stuff about riding as well.
  14. I remember reading a story about a lady getting her L's and then going to the shop to buy a scooter ,she didn't make it to the end of the road ,and meet with a truck and passed away. :cry: .

    I did the NSW L's course ,we did about 2 hours riding in that time doing 20kph in a loop about 100 meters long.
    The course is not great but ok ,it's up to the rider to get the bike delivered to their house and stay off the main roads ,ride at times with very few cars around and find a car park and REALLY practice what you learnt and told to practice.
    You can't blame the riding courses or trainers ,for people wanting to show off there new ride and the skills on a bike and being a idiot.
    They should change the name of the courses from "RIDER training" to "Learn to start the bike and uses gears course ",when you leave the L's course thats all you know, you don't know how to ride.
  15. What alot of people don#t know about the Stay upright System is that if it wasn#t put into place Motorbikes would now be illegal in NSW for sure and probably other places as well.

    It should be a worldwide system,

    the one they have in perth may not be perfect but its a far cry from the "system" they have in los angeles and 2 other us states, where you can be 17, and buy an R1 or a busa or ZX10R or whatever the hell you want and then ride it straight away and NOT have to wear a helmet, and you can pillion straight away too, no helmets there either.

    THAT is why you hear so many stories of bike deaths in the states. rights of citizens have taken the place of common sense.

    If that happens in australia i am leaving!!

    Donkey Live Aus Berlin.
  16. The rider training for L's in Vic is OK at best, but I believe should be conducted at a racetrack so participants can get a chance to ride at at least 100kmh before venturing onto the open road. The little carpark at Hoppers Crossing where I did mine is insufficient for 'training' suitable for preparing someone who has never ridden before. Having never been at 100kmh on two wheels, how is a noob supposed to react to a truck on a windy day overtaking them on the fwy?
    For the sake of a couple of $100, which would cost the Govt nothing, only the noob rider, accredited advanced courses such a SBS, HART and Stay Upright should be a prerequisite to obtaining a Learners permit, courses where they teach you how to ride and handle situations, rather than just being taught how not to fall off at 20-25kmh, when to indicate, and stop in front of an expected red light.
  17. I tend to agree with the previous poster, but would add that the 'ride school' should, as part of the course take all new learners for at least 1 hour on the real roads in traffic.
    This could be achieved as a 2:1 ratio students to instructor.

    From memory the Army uses a similar system for their riders. Their course is also 3 weeks of theory and riding.
  18. When I got my learners, it was a written test (check the boxes) and pay your money.

    That was the test. 30 yrs ago.
    about 6 months later, they bettered it with the test.
    I went to the testing station, and it was pouring!.
    the std procedure of the day was to ride a predetermined route, whilst the testing officer stood on the verandah and watched you from afar.
    On this day, the wind was blowing the water in under the verandah.
    The testing officer asked me how I got there - I was standing in front of him dripping water everywhere.
    When I replied that I rode, he asked me if I fell off.
    When I said no, he gave me my licence. he wasn't going to stand in the rain and watch!.

    Things have changed, and for the better in that time.
    Many did not survive the learners process in the past.
    The current permit/licence situation in Vic is vastly superior, because at least they know you have some, even basic skills.
    In the past you were truly on your own.
    People talk of interference, but at least their is some responsibility for ensuring you can start and stop, even turn a corner. In the past, there was nil.
  19. There are people that never have a desirer to travel at 100kmh for example some scooter riders. Maybe we should have separate testing for scooters and bike's because as it stands you can do your L's on a scooter then go buy a bike. when I did my L's there was a guy who had never been on a bike before and was struggling with the concept so they got him a scooter and he did it on that then after he was telling me how he was going to pick up is bike next weekend.
  20. Everyone who has a licence is licenced to ride up to 110kmh in Victoria and therefor should be able to, if they choose then to get a bike/scooter that will not go that fast, that's fine, but as you've said, they are legally allowed to get a bike capable of it, and as such, they should be capable of it.

    What they perhaps should have is progressive, categorised licences like trucks. You start on a light rigid and have to work your way up to being allowed to drive a B-Double.

    The fact that someone can do their licence test on a 250/scooter, wait 12mths without even riding again if they wish, and then go buy a R1 is just plain stupid! There should be more testing before each progression.