Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

NSW 3 points, $243 for helmet not done up completely

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by evelknievel75, May 11, 2009.

  1. riding down oxford st, paddington today i got pulled over by the police for not having my helmet completely done up.

    yes, not fully looped through. i must see 3-5 police a day in the city, if ever this was a case of cops targeting bikes this is it. i ride by them under speed limit in the outside lane they swerve turn the sirens on and pull me over.

    "do you realise your helmet is not done up" no, didn't, it was looped through but not the second bit ( absent mindedness on my part )....

    one cop stands beside me whilst the other two in the car taken 10 minutes to look up the penatly code ( i kid you not ). i say to the one standing by me, i appreciate the job you guys do but this is a bit mickey mouse. he looks a little embarrassed. his muppet hard arse colleague comes back and says right, "heres your fine, $243, 3 points". i ask why is this not a warning etc...."we are running a saftety campaign at the moment"....i say thats great, the streets are much safer now thinking dont worry about muggers etc

    i can understand it all but 3 points? $243? i think a red light is about the same as this.....



    i know see why a lot of people don't have a positive attitude towards police.

    PS and for those who say you did the crime do the time, eat me. i acknowledge this so save yourself the trouble of replying...it's the absurdity of the whole situation
     
     Top
  2. 3 officers to issue a ticket to a rider for helmet not being fastened properly? They must have good eyes to be able to see your helmet strap as you rode past.
     
     Top
  3. That's very harsh and an instance where a recorded warning would be better.
     
     Top
  4. yep, as i said, riding past them in the outside lane 15 kms under speed limit, they had nothing better to.

    when i asked on them on this they said they were running a safety operation in the area ( surry hills police )....

    by the time i pulled over 3 lanes it had flicked out completely
     
     Top
  5. You should check the rule under which you have been charged carefully. It should be on the ticket. I assume it is the "not wearing a helmet" rule, but if so, why did it take them 10 minutes to work it out.

    I suspect they made some interpretation of a rule, which could be challenged, maybe even sucessfully.

    Yes, the penalty does seem a bit harsh. Forgetting to do up the straps properly, which I'm sure most riders have done at least once, is quite different to deliberately riding without a helmet.
     
     Top
  6. I would most certainly look further into this. Try some free legal advice. Most lawyers will give you a free half hour session.
     
     Top

  7. No cop, but actually it isn't that difficult to tell if you know what to look at and for.

    I say this as whilst officiating at some race meetings we have called riders who's helmets have either not been done up at all or were not fully strapped and on each occasion we were correct. But as I said, you need to know what you are looking at and generally the strap is the giveaway.






    Garry
     
     Top
  8. I also think you should get some legal advice

    I wonder how many drug deals were going down while three refugees from Maccas penalised you for risking ONLY YOURSELF by not properly fastening your helmet.

    (Do you have a previous traffic violation history, BTW? It's long been my opinion that if people do, the Police target them for repeat attention.....)
     
     Top
  9. Over here in WA, compliance with the law requires that the helmet is to the appropriate AS and is "properly secured", so there wouldn't be much wriggle room. Penalty for non-compliance makes no distinction between no helmet, non-AS helmet, AS helmet without the strap done up etc.

    I sympathise, having been similarly absent minded on one occasion (though didn't get caught), but if the law in NSW proves to be similarly worded you may not have much recourse.

    FWIW, I'd regard a warning as a more appropriate course of action.
     
     Top
  10. "motorbike rider (alone) not wear/securely fit approved helmet"

    code 3178....as the ticket says....

    will investigate further
     
     Top
  11. #11 cejay, May 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2014
    I've done the same job and it's quite easy to check.

    As much as I have a healthy scepticism of the police and their motives, road law enforcement most definitely is part of their job. We complain when camera's are used and we clamour for a more visible police presence, yet when they devote resources to that job, we then accuse them of being 'refugees from Maccas', which is a cheap shot and not relevant to the OP.

    The only relevant point is whether the officers could have dealt with the issue with a warning, seeing as the OP obviously had made some effort to secure their helmet.
     
     Top
  12. Sorry mate to hear that :(
    They could just simply remind you that your helmet is not done up completely, no drama. No damage was done, just a simple mistake.
    That makes me think some of them are just :evil:
     
     Top
  13. 100% agree. Very insightful.
     
     Top
  14. Define "secure". See what a lawyer says.

    I do agree that the sanction is harsh, and the whole episode sounds fairly laughable (if it didn't cost you so much!)

    "Oh, we're doing an unannounced, localised blitz, so we can be unreasonable twats today."
     
     Top
  15. #15 livingstonest, May 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2014
    Agreed incredibly harsh.

    Of course its now possible that for the rest of your life you will never have that strap undone. Could be worth it.
     
     Top
  16. That could be a point actually. But also is the fact that you will probably never again forget to do the straps up properly.

    As an aside, I wear a Windjammer on my helmet these days, and while obviously the helmet can be put on and removed, it is much more secure, and almost doesn't need the straps. It's neat to as I can tuck the end of the strap into the Windjammer, and therefore I don't need to worry about that fiddly press stud anymore. I could just tuck the whole strap up out of the way as well, if I was so inclined, and I doubt anyone would notice. :)

    As another aside, I always have a chuckle when I watch movies, and some rider either arrives somewhere and just pulls off their helmet, or jumps on the bike and pushes on the helmet, with no sign of fiddling with straps at all. Of course, most of the movies come from America, and they don't have to wear helmets at all anyway, so I don't suppose it matters if their helmets fall off in a crash. :oops:
     
     Top
  17. Just for shits and giggles, here is the Rule that covers this offence:

    Road Rule 270:

    http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fragview/inforce/subordleg+179+2008+pt.16-rule.270+0+N?tocnav=y
     
     Top
  18. Is there a standard for 'securely'? Thinking that unless someone can define what securely means, the OP could argue it was quite clearly secured. Unless of course they refer to the manufacturers guidance for what constitutes 'secure'. Still, 3pts seems excessive, what's the equivalent for seatbelt use? That'd be the closest equivalent.
     
     Top
  19. #19 Day, May 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2014
    Good point ceejay, but they could counter with "fastened". That may be the what requires the definition. What do our handbooks say regarding the wearing of helmets and how they should be fastened. I did my training in NSW but can't recall what the book said.

    The seatbelt rule does not refer to 'securely' but "properly adjusted and fastened'. Also it appears to hold the same penalty.

    http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fragview/inforce/subordleg+179+2008+pt.16-rule.264+0+N?tocnav=y

     
     Top
  20. Cool. Makes sense. A lot of drivers who don't like belts will drape the belt around them but not clip it in. I imagine the cops would view that the same as with an incorrectly secured helmet.

    3pts...that still seems harsh.
     
     Top