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2WD Bike?

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by conspiracytheorist, Jan 16, 2008.

  1. I had a search but couldn't see anything.

    Anyone heard of a 2 wheel drive bike? Ie. power to both wheels?

    Just thought it might interesting idea and was wondering whether anyone had ever tried to make one.

  2. Anime movie Akira has mention of this concept, been thinking about possibilities ever since... :)
  3. yamaha bought one out a couple of years agoo yzf450 twin track .drive to front wheel was via hydraulic system running of the motor oil pressure the bike is around the 22 000 mark but comes with premium every thing all gold series suspensin front and rear.brembo brakes the lot basicly apparently it one of the best trail and safari bike around
  4. Yamaha toyed with this in 2003 I believe, not sure what became of it. They were using Hydraulics to drive the front wheel. David Fretigne raced one in the Paris Dakar race in 2003 I think a Yamaha 450 WRF 2-Trac

    The USA company Rokon have made an off roader 2 wheel drive for a while.

    A few people have had a play with it but not sure what sort of success there has been. I think the problem has been the extra weight involved on the front wheel. Seems to be more popular in off road bikes. Interesting concept.
  5. The yamaha system was developed by ohlins (who yamaha had a majority shareholding until very recently). It was a hydraulic system and was pretty maintainance intensive. And expensive. Don't know much about it, it probably would have sucked a fair bit of power from the engine. An aussie engineer, someone Drysdale (Ian?) developed a 2wd and two wheel steer (i think) dirt bike sometime in the 80's. Pretty ugly thing, not sure what happened to that. Sunk without trace i guess...
  6. I don't really see the point in having 2WD on a bike. If it's powerful enough to lit the rear up enough to make it necessary, the front lifting is gonna be a more pressing issue.
  7. Yeah, I was thinking about this - specifically the need to lift the front for offroading. I figure some sort of very complex computer system would be needed to control its use, and some manual controls to put it back to RWD would be needed.
  8. ccm did one in the seventies....
  9. I don't understand what you two are talking about. Are you talking about breakig traction with the rear or lifting the rear? Hydraulics are very easy to control with simple old fashioned mechanical devices, and there isn't a problem with power lifting the front wheel to get over logs. You also have situations where you need traction and not just power. Climbing steep slippery slopes with a turn in the middle is a good example, where you can't just powerslide your way up from the bottom.

    You also get situations in very soft sand and big hills where it is hard to keep enough speed to stop the front wheel digging in - a front wheel drive system keeps the front climbing out of the rut by itself.

    As far as i'm aware, the biggest problem that was outlined by the riders was the same as a 4wd race car - hard to steer with the throttle. It worked, but not so much better in so many situations compared to the normal bike that it was worth the effort.
  10. That pretty much nails it. the yam needed rebuilding every 6 or 8 hours or something.

    Then you get to the logic of it and in the end bikes are so good because they are so simple. The complexity it adds compared to the benefits gained are way out of proportion
  11. So whatever did happen to the 2-trac?
    They still sell it
    I read a review of how it performs ages ago. Apparently it understeers in soft stuff, but hill climbs like a mountain goat.
    In sand dunes it apparently absolutly cleans up on climbs.
    But it does come at a cost, which is that teh hydrolic pump apparently sucks a fair bit of power from the drive train. so it's peaks at teh wheel do suffer.

    KTM HAve also looked into 2WD Motorbikes

    MCN 2-Trac review http://www.mcnews.com.au/Testing/Yamaha/WR-2trac/Page1.htm
  12. the reveiw i read said there was not a lot of power loss from the motor as the hydraulics run of the oil pump from memory the loss was minimal
  13. hadn't heard word of this till now. So they are looking at onroad application of 2WD technology
  14. It wouldn't have done. An engine oil pump has nowhere near the pressure needed for a Hydraulic system.

    With a hydraulic system you would have lost 10% in the pump and 10% in the hydraulic motor and a bit more in the system.

    If 30% of the drive went to the front wheel that mean around 6% of the total engine power went out the door in heat. Not huge, but noticeable, particularly if the bike weighed 10% more.
  15. I was wrong about turning circle (Just re-reading the mcn article
  16. Yeah saw some vids ages ago of the WR 2-Trac in the sand dunes. Looked very very fun. But yeah I can't see the system being easy to maintain, or cheap for that matter. Interesting concept none the less.
  17. And, of course, you now need a cooler somewhere in the system to dissipate that heat. More bulk, more weight, more potential failure modes.

    It's worth remembering that there's a good reason we still ride what are, effectively, motorised bicycles. They work. Even if the feet forward enthusiasts can reasonably argue that point.
  18. ateast yamaha pused the envelope i guess, cool bike if you need heaps of traction