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250cc vs 600cc weight.

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' at netrider.net.au started by resonator, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. I've been tossing around in my head for a while that I'll get a 400 between my 250 and getting a 600 because people seem to say that they are much lighter to throw around the twisties and have the torque of a bigger bike.

    I've just done a quick look and found that a gsx-r 600 k5-7 is like 161kg dry and my cbr250rr is 158kg dry. I'm thinking wet there might be 10kg difference in weight.

    When people say that a 250 is lighter, is it more about the weight distribution making it feel lighter as opposed to the actual weight? Or is few odd kg enough to make a big difference?


     
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  2. The weight issue is becoming less and less relevant with technology making everything lighter. 1000cc bikes are MUCH lighter than they used to be, as are 600s. At the moment, modern 250cc bikes are around 140-160 wet weight (with all fluids in), 600cc bikes are 180ish wet, and 1000cc sports are 180-200ish wet. Big touring bikes obviously weigh more, but sports are around these figures.

    The people I've talked to who have gone from 250-->600 have said the much much better steering and suspension makes it feel just as, or easier to throw around as a 250.

    Most 400cc's are old imports, so they wouldn't be much lighter (if any) than a modern 600 really.
     
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  3. There is also the matter of rotating mass. 2 bikes, both with identical weight, geometry and COG, but with a differing rotating mass with handle differently.
     
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  4. Although the weight difference is minimal nowadays, vfr400's and rvf400's are known for liking corners a lot. But they are old and grey.

    I don't think any of the jap 4 do a 400 sports any more.
     
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  5. Actually a VFR400 is what I've got my eye on. Only 10 more months till I'm off restrictions. :mad:
     
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  6. What do you mean??? Like wheel/tyre weight?
     
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  7. Depends what you mean by sports, the ZZR400 is still in production which is a fully-faired 4-cylinder. There's also the ZRX400 and XJR400 if you want a parallel-4 without fairings, and the SV400 if you want a semi-faired v-twin. Of course none of them get sold here though. :cry: .
     
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  8. What does the R in RPM mean? :p

    Forget what's on paper and take the bikes for a spin. The little 400s V4s are a lot of fun, and they'll embarrass big bikes in the right conditions. I've ridden an RVF regularly the last few weeks, and getting back on the Spada after an extended run feels like jumping on a pushie :rofl:

    Loz made a few great comments here:

    https://netrider.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37634
     
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  9. Thanks for the linky.

    I haven't read a bad word about those bikes and Loz's comments seem to reinforce my previous decision about about a 400 being a good idea.

    I guess there is no need for me to get a 600. I'm around 5'10" and about 60kg so I don't think I'll have any issues with my size like Loz. I'm comfy on my 250, I'd just like it to have a little more broom-broom. :grin:
     
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  10. I'd definitely consider a 400 if you could get new ones in aus.
     
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  11. It would be interesting to see how well an unchanged RVF would sell new. Honda have already done all the r&d so it wouldn't cost anything in that respect, and there are people about who are willing to spend like 8k on a 10 year old one.

    Hmm, me wonders how much they'd sell the rights for. :grin:
     
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  12. +1. Although I think what's stopping them would be price. In Japan there's a captive market for 400s due to licence restrictions - here though they'd have to compete price-wise with the cheaper 600s like the ER6, SV650, GT650 etc. Still if Victoria ditches its 260cc restriction then that's going to create an even larger market for LAMs bikes - hopefully that'll encourage at least one of the Japanese manufacturers to bring a 400 out here to compete with the likes of the GS500.
     
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  13. This is Honda we're talking about. They haven't changed anything on the VTR250 for 10 years and look how much they charge for that ;).
     
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  14. But what will sumoto do?

    :rofl:
     
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  15. Would the VTR to be the highest selling new 250?
    Then again I think I heard that they/someone wanted to drop one of their 250 lines because they costed almost the same as a 600 but had less profit.
     
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  16. Its about the same as a zzr new (8000 and something + orc)
     
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  17. Yep. Although when the VTR was released it was in fact cheaper than the ZZR - but has increased in price by 1000 bucks in the last 8 years (whereas the ZZR has stayed pretty much the same price).
     
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  18. i believe the 05 ninja and 06 r6 are 164kg dry. thats pretty damn good for a 600. newer bikes are getting lighter and lighter and more powerful too.
     
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  19. Both these bikes are unavailable officially at the moment, but just as a guide, the 250 Honda Hornet (plenty of grey market imports available) has a dry weight of 151kgs.

    The 600 Honda Hornet, some second-hand available, was brought here officially, and the new 2007 model MIGHT come here, has a dry weight of 176kgs.

    Apart from the engine and the weight, in every other respect they are identical bikes; the same fuel tank capacity, wheel and tyre sizes, etc. Both have a nice low seat height, will fang or cruise, and can be used for touring too.....
     
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  20. Crank weight, flywheel weight, reciprocating mass etc etc. There are bikes out there that are absolutely identical except for a different crank to lengthen the stroke and increase displacement a little. There is practically no change in weight, yet one is more nimble.

    Grab a discman, move it around in your hand. Now turn it on with a cd in it and move it around in your hand. If you could put 2cd's in there, that effect you feel would be increased.

    Anyway, without rambling, outright weight is one thing, but at the end of the day the seat-of-the-pants test (or a stopwatch) is the best.
     
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