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250cc to dumped in the market.

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by pro-pilot, Jul 15, 2007.

  1. Will get more shortly. Have seen a series of communications between dealers and manufactures around 250cc bikes in Aus.



    Some of the material goes into detail the future of motorcycle market by 2010 (including how LAMS styled laws will be country wide) and suggests strategies to filter out many of the second hand 250 and below motorcycle lines (eg. all the cbr's, spada's etc.) Some have been suggested as trad-offs to training schools.

    Not sure about the new lines like hyosung though.

    Needles to say, re-sale value (unless private) will be progressively next to nothing, and with LAMS comming along here, getting rid of them sooner rather than later might make more sense, less there becomes hundreds of them flooding the market.

    Sydney's 250 market is based on many interstate trad-ins and swap stock to states like here in VIC, so once this drys up, they will be dumped.

    More to follow...
     
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  2. 250's will not lose their place, if you actually look at the states that have lams , the prices have not changed much if at all
     
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  3. Ummm... 250s will not lose their place. Just because you CAN get a higher capacity bike doesn't mean they will, especially since alot of 250s are near the max power anyway.

    For proof, look at LAMS coming into other states.
     
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  4. Missing the point of the OP, folks. Once LAMS is universal, they will have the reason to dump 250s altogether, selling them interstate will mean nothing.
     
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  5. the only 250's that will lose out are the race rep 2 strokes

    cbr's and the like will not change

    if you have actually looked at states that have gone to lams , the 250's have not changed in price, bikes that have become Lam legal have in some cases increased in price RVF400,GS500 etc
     
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  6. This is not opinion.

    It is a few sets of documents outlining the market to 2010.

    It is not anything writtein in concrete. But from initial observation it would seem that LAMS system allows retailers to sell many more bikes with higher margins. The older 250's are actually a legacy of the old system that demanded new riders use. Their profitability is not good.

    The result is that like types of computer software. These bikes will become un-supported by the main stream retailers.
    But there is still the second hand market.

    My guess (opinion here) is that dealers moving forward will quash prices on these older 250 bikes, effectively driving sales of new high margin models.

    Hey I not making the moves, but would not want to be hanging onto a 6 grand bike that becomes worth 2 in 12 months. Time is good now to get a reasonable quality mid range bike.

    Have had two friends, who are over 30, just transfered thier licences to NSW, no more restrictions and bought bigger bikes.
     
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  7. i read ur post 3 times and i dont get it.

    The only way they could push this strategy of getting rid of 250cc bikes is by realesing restricted versions of there mid sized bikes (40hp cbr 600 8:]

    Now this hasnt killed the market in NSW but its sure as hell had an impact if u have a look at the number of hyosungs sold

    Lol dealers cant just unsport a bike. they cant cause they dont realy support them now, If u need it repaired go to a mechanic if u want parts oreder them online or mechanic,

    Dealership do nothing but allow people test rides

    In addition learners will always opt for cheap fast bikes, Like now.

    Dealerships cant squash the value of trade in or resale of 250 cc bikes to get the m out of circulation market factors will not allow it.
     
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  8. post is simple. There is discussion around the Australian motorcycle retail market strategy to 2010.
    Due to low sale margins the target is to purge low margin vehicles from the market, which LAMS (once all around Aus) will allow. Because manufactures can restrict new bikes and add features that get better financial returns.
    Also the NSW market in 250 is mostly around trading with non-LAMS states. That will evaporate once LAMS is Aus. wide.

    Don't worry mate, if you intend to keep your 250, just ride it till the wheels fall off (scrap value only) then buy a new one.
     
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  9. i really am having trouble following what you are talking about

    kawasaki for instance will not stop selling GPX/ZZR's

    the GPX has a huge market in the USA and other areas , it owes kawasaki nothing in R&D

    start seeing the influx of asian bikes already
     
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  10. The US has a population of 275 Million people, with 50 states. Many of these states still have junior rider rules (eg. Under 20 yrs of age etc).

    250's in the US are nearly unheard of in some areas. But by sheer numbers (population) still have a market.

    Australia has a population of 21 Million (less than 10%), our bike sales number less than 15,000 (new) per annum. For the market to sustain profitability they intend to shift towards importing and selling only high margin vehicles.

    So "for you to follow" once LAMS is Australia wide. The need to supply 250cc bikes to the market (which are not profitable here) they will squeeze them out of the market in sales terms. If you look at the market stats. 250 sales make up about 15% of bike sales, all to new riders who pass them on to the next generation. Thats why grey imports function well. Chop up the bad ones, re-sell the constituted remaining stock. But no new ones. Here Hyousung is filling a market space due to the Asian market having cc restrictions for use in their cities.

    Also in the UK and Europe 250cc bikes are almost non-existant. The laws there is that if you are 17 you can only ride up too 125cc. It is called a A1 Licence that you hold as a kid. Thats why the Honda offering is a cbr125, not a new 250. And I have a UK licence. Over there I must admit, have very rarely seen a 250.

    The manufactures are driven by volumes and demand for products which in this case (motorcycles) has been determined by the laws we have. Once those laws become redundant, you will find demand for these smaller bikes will disappear (as you will be able to get new 500cc+ bikes for the same price as the 250's are now).

    Phew. Hope that explains the market dynamics.
     
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  11. the ninja 250 (GPX) still has a big following in the states and lets face it a bike thats inchanged essentially since 1988 has gotta have a market

    ok , every brand needs to sell learner legal machines

    Honda brought in the CBR125 to have a learner legal sports bike to compete on the chinese price

    what else does honda have on the learner legal front ?

    CBF250
    VTR250

    do they have a larger capacity learner legal bike? not that i am aware of
     
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  12. Oh dear. LAMS is all about Learner legal larger capacity bikes.

    http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyclesnoviceriders.html

    Here is an example
     
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  13. \

    yes i live in NSW

    apart from the dirt bikes what else does honda have as a LAM ?

    the trannie , a dual sport machine

    lets face it ,they will sell whatever they can to retain maket share and have machines that bring riders in to keep them on their brand onto their larger bikes , just like the car dealers do
     
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  14. Pro-pilot, do you work for a bike dealership or mechanic? I am just wondering how you came by this info. What you have said makes sense though.
     
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  15. Actually such restrictions are generally LESS than 250cc (usually 175) - the 250 Hyosung was actually designed for the export market ie Europe, US, Australia etc. I really don't see what manufacturers could sell here apart from 250s. Sure Europe has a range of mid-sized bikes that would fit on the LAMs list but most of those are made in Europe so the cost to bring them here would most likely be far too high. If the major Japanese brands ditched 250s in favour of solely selling 400-500cc LAMs bikes they'd just be setting themselves up to be killed in the marketplace by cheaper 250s coming out of China or Korea, or possibly even Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia etc.
     
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  16. johnnie they have the rvf400, and with a nation wide introduction of lams, all the major dealer would more then likely push to build something, but on the other hand kawasaki did discontinue the manufacturing of the er-5

    although with higher demand, with power to weight restrictions across the board could see an influx of new lams approved motorcycles, which will be great for everyone, as there would be more competition across the market, instead of there only being 3 lams bike in the sports orientation with a larger capacity, that you can purchase brand new

    suzuki GS500/F
    hyosung GT650/R
    and the ducati monster 620i lite
     
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  17. well firstly the RVF is an old bike and is extremely overpriced on the used bike markety as it is prob the quickest of the LAM bikes

    the others you mention are hardly sports bikes

    the monster is no longer available as a new bike afaik

    australia is a bees dick on the world market

    there has been lams for a while in several states, you would think by now they would be bringing in bikes that meet the spec if they were available
     
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  18. i never said they were sports, i said sports orientated, meaning they look sport-ish, while still maintaining a very stable bike for just about any learner, with out the aggressive seating position that the old 250 race replicas had
     
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  19. Which is why 250's are ridiculously overpriced for what they are.........
    Why would anyone choose to buy a 250 with no torque and useable horsepower way up past 10k rpm when they could buy a nice LAMS 400-650 with a broad useable torque curve in a much nicer bike once LAMS come in? There is no real argument for 250's, not even on fuel consumption, as the difference is negligible. They're just what a whole bunch of people are forced to ride at the moment. Sure, people love their first bike, but don't try to defend 250's, they are just a means to an end.
    250's will be white elephants, people will lose lots of money. Someone will end up owning a 250 when the market crashes.

    Regards, Andrew.
     
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  20. and yes the ducati 620 lite is still being built and sold brand new http://www.ducati.com.au/07monster620.php, check the site before staing otherwise, yes they have the 695 now but they are still trying to take a bite out of the australian learner market with the lams 620 monster
     
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